Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think that this argument would mostly apply to biblical literalists. Christians who take the Bible as a set of morality stories would have no problem reconciling the first person telling with a third person author.
I think that the biblical literalists might respond by saying:
Moses, Abraham, etc wrote their experiences down, so since the person directly involved did the writing, we know that they are accurate.
As for the internal conversations between God and Satan, or inside the trinity, this might count as revealed knowledge. God told Adam (or whoever is alleged to have written Genesis) what he was thinking, and Adam wrote it down. Since Adam was inspired by God to write it, it therefore must be literally, word for word true. And so forth for the later examples.
It is a weak response, completely ignores the basic principles of fact checking, and presumes the circular argument that the Bible can be trusted because it is trustworthy.
I like your argument because it is a response to christians who attack evolution, geology, etc on the basis that we cannot know, because we were not there to observe. Obviously they are unclear as to how evidence works, but this is simply an example that they do the same things themselves, albeit badly.
Interesting, isn't it? When you ponder such questions, you realize that the Bible is written as a STORY just as any story today. A few people with some imaginative minds made up some stories, played with a few that were orally handed down, added a little truth here and there with a large helping of embellishment, exaggeration, ethnocentrism and bias and came up with some books.
I have always said that the bible is missing a beginning that opes with, "one upon a time" and ends with, "ad all of god's people lived happily ever after." Add those two things and the bible would be seen for what it truly is - a story book of the Jews and Christians, nothing more and nothing less.
Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"
So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah., and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
We called out to him "O Abraham!
"Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
So if god is so smart and can do anything why didn't he just write the darn book perfectly himself and slap it down here? Why all the trouble with all these different people?
He did write a Book its called the Ten Commandments, it was written on stone tablets. It was meant to be a guide to live by, something alot of people throughout time have had trouble dealing with. Well God saw that the tablets weren't enough and since he loved us so much he gave his only beggotten Son, Jesus, over for a sacrifice to cover our bad behavior.
The chosen ones that wrote the Books after Christ died were inspired by the Holy Spirit, and is simply a guide to live by, you must determine how much faith you wish to live with and hope its enough to get your name in the Book of Life.
here is one of the stories of prophet Moses peace be upon him from Allah
9 Hath there come unto thee the story of Moses?
10 When he saw a fire and said unto his folk: Lo! Wait! I see a fire afar off. Peradventure I may bring you a brand therefrom or may find guidance at the fire.
11 And when he reached it, he was called by name: O Moses!
12 Lo! I, even I, am thy Lord, So take off thy shoes, for lo! thou art in the holy valley of Tuwa.
13 And I have chosen thee, so hearken unto that which is inspired.
14 Lo! I, even I, am Allah, There is no Allah save Me. So serve Me and establish worship for My remembrance.
15 Lo! the Hour is surely coming. But I will to keep it hidden, that every soul may be rewarded for that which it striveth (to achieve).
16 Therefor, let not him turn thee aside from (the thought of) it who believeth not therein but followeth his own desire, lest thou perish.
17 And what is that in thy right hand, O Moses?
18 He said: This is my staff whereon I lean, and wherewith I bear down branches for my sheep, and wherein I find other uses.
19 He said: Cast it down, O Moses!
20 So he cast it down, and lo! it was a serpent, gliding.
21 He said: Grasp it and fear not. We shall return it to its former state.
22 And thrust thy hand within thine armpit, it will come forth white without hurt. (That will be) another token.
23 That We may show thee (some) of Our greater portents,
24 Go thou unto Pharaoh! Lo! he hath transgressed (the bounds).
25 (Moses) said: My Lord! relieve my mind
26 And ease my task for me;
27 And loose a knot from my tongue,
28 That they may understand my saying.
29 Appoint for me a henchman from my folk,
30 Aaron, my brother.
31 Confirm my strength with him
32 And let him share my task,
33 That we may glorify Thee much
34 And much remember Thee.
35 Lo! Thou art ever Seeing us.
36 He said: Thou art granted thy request, O Moses.
37 And indeed, another time, already We have shown thee favour,
38 When we inspired in thy mother that which is inspired,
39 Saying: Throw him into the ark, and throw it into the river, then the river shall throw it on to the bank, and there an enemy to Me and an enemy to him shall take him. And I endued thee with love from Me that thou mightest be trained according to My will,
40 When thy sister went and said: Shall I show you one who will nurse him? and we restored thee to thy mother that her eyes might be refreshed and might not sorrow. And thou didst kill a man and We delivered thee from great distress, and tried thee with a heavy trial. And thou didst tarry years among the folk of Midian. Then camest thou (hither) by (My) providence, O Moses
Interesting, isn't it? When you ponder such questions, you realize that the Bible is written as a STORY just as any story today. A few people with some imaginative minds made up some stories, played with a few that were orally handed down, added a little truth here and there with a large helping of embellishment, exaggeration, ethnocentrism and bias and came up with some books.
I have always said that the bible is missing a beginning that opes with, "one upon a time" and ends with, "ad all of god's people lived happily ever after." Add those two things and the bible would be seen for what it truly is - a story book of the Jews and Christians, nothing more and nothing less.
God said he was the Alpha and Omega, the beggining and the end.
He did write a Book its called the Ten Commandments, it was written on stone tablets. It was meant to be a guide to live by, something alot of people throughout time have had trouble dealing with. Well God saw that the tablets weren't enough and since he loved us so much he gave his only beggotten Son, Jesus, over for a sacrifice to cover our bad behavior.
You believe this because the bible that tells us it is the world of god says that this is the way it went down, huh? This is the point, we are TOLD this is what happened when Moses went up on Mount Sinai. Who was up there with the guy to corroborate this wild story?
Quote:
The chosen ones that wrote the Books after Christ died were inspired by the Holy Spirit, and is simply a guide to live by, you must determine how much faith you wish to live with and hope its enough to get your name in the Book of Life.
Again, isn't it because some other person tells us they were inspired? Was the writer of I Timothy ("all scripture is inspired....") or I Peter ("the prophecy of old came not by...") around when the stories of the Old Testament went down? Why should I trust their opinion on what THEY believe was inspired of god?
here is one of the stories of prophet Moses peace be upon him from Allah
9 Hath there come unto thee the story of Moses?
10 When he saw a fire and said unto his folk: Lo! Wait! I see a fire afar off. Peradventure I may bring you a brand therefrom or may find guidance at the fire.
11 And when he reached it, he was called by name: O Moses!
12 Lo! I, even I, am thy Lord, So take off thy shoes, for lo! thou art in the holy valley of Tuwa.
13 And I have chosen thee, so hearken unto that which is inspired.
14 Lo! I, even I, am Allah, There is no Allah save Me. So serve Me and establish worship for My remembrance.
15 Lo! the Hour is surely coming. But I will to keep it hidden, that every soul may be rewarded for that which it striveth (to achieve).
16 Therefor, let not him turn thee aside from (the thought of) it who believeth not therein but followeth his own desire, lest thou perish.
17 And what is that in thy right hand, O Moses?
18 He said: This is my staff whereon I lean, and wherewith I bear down branches for my sheep, and wherein I find other uses.
19 He said: Cast it down, O Moses!
20 So he cast it down, and lo! it was a serpent, gliding.
21 He said: Grasp it and fear not. We shall return it to its former state.
22 And thrust thy hand within thine armpit, it will come forth white without hurt. (That will be) another token.
23 That We may show thee (some) of Our greater portents,
24 Go thou unto Pharaoh! Lo! he hath transgressed (the bounds).
25 (Moses) said: My Lord! relieve my mind
26 And ease my task for me;
27 And loose a knot from my tongue,
28 That they may understand my saying.
29 Appoint for me a henchman from my folk,
30 Aaron, my brother.
31 Confirm my strength with him
32 And let him share my task,
33 That we may glorify Thee much
34 And much remember Thee.
35 Lo! Thou art ever Seeing us.
36 He said: Thou art granted thy request, O Moses.
37 And indeed, another time, already We have shown thee favour,
38 When we inspired in thy mother that which is inspired,
39 Saying: Throw him into the ark, and throw it into the river, then the river shall throw it on to the bank, and there an enemy to Me and an enemy to him shall take him. And I endued thee with love from Me that thou mightest be trained according to My will,
40 When thy sister went and said: Shall I show you one who will nurse him? and we restored thee to thy mother that her eyes might be refreshed and might not sorrow. And thou didst kill a man and We delivered thee from great distress, and tried thee with a heavy trial. And thou didst tarry years among the folk of Midian. Then camest thou (hither) by (My) providence, O Moses
I'll second that. I had a friend on shrooms and he swore up and down a tree showed him the way home when he was 'lost'. Of course, he was 'lost' in my backyard which was the side of a hill and we could see him the whole time.
Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"
So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah., and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
We called out to him "O Abraham!
"Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
For this was obviously a trial-
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
