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Yesterday I had an interesting conversaion with a lady at work. She is very religious. The conversation started on world affairs but it ended up moving into religions as it applies to world affairs also.
However, as I asked inquiring questions and some of her answers were that I have to have faith when replying to questions I felt she had no answers for.
No, I am not trying to bach religion or Christianity. Some take it that way once discussions of this nature start.
I want to ask people what is faith to them. The reason I asked is because I told her that as far as I know the definition of faith requires evidence. It makes sense to me. However, I quoted from one Bible. I am aware there are many Bible versions out there and I only have two versions.
I cite the Bible version I quoted to her: The New World Translation of the Holy Scripture from the Watchtower Society. I know, Jehovah's Witnesses are not very popular in the Christian World. I am not one but I do like their Bible version because it seems it uses more contemporary language. I aks not to close your mind simply because it is a Jehovah's Witness version. I have seen that a lot.
The intent of my thread is to compare the faith definition in different versions and for you to define faith yourself.
The lady told me you have to have faith but could not describe it according the the Bible. She admitted she did not know the Bible definition. To be fair to her I think she just could not remember it verbatim. I told her Hebrews 11:1 gives the definition of faith and that to me it requires evidence. We disagreed on this point.
In the version I have it says:
Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.
My point to her is that faith also requires evidence, not just believe in something just because. There must be some type of evidence.
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
This is the KJV. It is telling you that faith is the evidence.
Faith to me is believing in something that I cannot, beyond a shadow of a doubt, prove. I have faith that the Bible is the Word of God, yet I wasn't there when it was written, so I cannot 100% know that it is. That's where my faith comes in.
I have faith that God exists. I look around me and see His beauty. I have not seen HIM, so I cannot 100% know that He exists. My faith again.
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or, "confianza" confidence that something is true, faith does not necessarily entail having any reason to believe something is true. ----- i.e. ----- a three year old and Santa Claus.
if faith is to outlast even its overbearing verbose positivism, it must translate to people as a heightened need to relate to each other, rather than proclaiming some indigestible half-knowledge to which the one-up attitude has reduced it. imho.
To me, "faith" is the intermediate position that one assumes to support the unsupported while awaiting proof or while educating oneself. It should never be allowed to become engrained and intractible.
It can be quite useful, and a positive maintainer of hope, when all else is failing, but to stick to one version in light of the inevitable changes that come with experience, education or enlightenment is to court disharmony.
What to do when one's faith interferes or conflicts with true reality... That's the mark and test of maturity and rationality.
Used in Hebrews 11, it's the "1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
The writer of Hebrews was sure God existed--was sure that Christ existed--but used it in terms of God having something in plan for his people. I would say faith is trust in God.
On a side note...just beware that the New World Translation takes some pretty good liberties with the Greek text, and is flat out heretical in some spots. You'd be better off finding a better translation--such as the NIV, NASB, or ESV--all have contemporary language and are easy to read.
"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."
A very accurate definition - in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo
My point to her is that faith also requires evidence, not just believe in something just because. There must be some type of evidence.
Great point!
Absolutely correct. I much prefer "reasonable" faith as opposed to blind faith. However, truth is truth - irrespective of whether or not we arrive at the truth through blind faith or reasoned faith, we still arrive at the same ultimate truth.
Used in Hebrews 11, it's the "1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
The writer of Hebrews was sure God existed--was sure that Christ existed--but used it in terms of God having something in plan for his people. I would say faith is trust in God.
On a side note...just beware that the New World Translation takes some pretty good liberties with the Greek text, and is flat out heretical in some spots. You'd be better off finding a better translation--such as the NIV, NASB, or ESV--all have contemporary language and are easy to read.
Thanks for the advice on the Bible version but I must say that Bible translations pretty much have their biased translators. I do not think the New World Translation is unique on your observation.
The Bible versions do reflect the doctrinal leanings of different translators just as you claim this version does. To me the Bible I read is irrelevant. The differences you may mention to me have to do with with specific doctrinal preferences but I read the general good and bad moral principals portrayed in the Bible. I do not get involved whether the Trinity is true or not, whether hell does or does not exist, ect. With this approach I do not see a problem reading any Bible version.
Also, yesterday I went to Barnes and Nobles and while there I remember this topic and compared the definition of faith on a few different versions of the Bible, some included the word evidence, some did not. One gave an interesting footnote explanation how the first part is the subjective part and how the second part gives the objective part of the defintion. The footnote talks about the greek words on both parts of the defintion.
if faith is to outlast even its overbearing verbose positivism, it must translate to people as a heightened need to relate to each other, rather than proclaiming some indigestible half-knowledge to which the one-up attitude has reduced it. imho.
I must confess ignorance. I have no problem admitting when I do not understand something.
I have not idea what you said. Do you care to expand? I must admit I got this condescending feeling on your part but I cannot say that was your intent. You sounded either condescending or simply you use some type of run off sentence that gave me this perception. I just do not know. Please expand with more lay vocabulary. I admit maybe your writing level is much higher than mine. Do you mind expanding to a lower level so I can understand?
Also, what was the intent of the reply? Sorry, I just do not know why you wrote what you wrote. I am very curious.
Thanks for the advice on the Bible version but I must say that Bible translations pretty much have their biased translators. I do not think the New World Translation is unique on your observation.
The Bible versions do reflect the doctrinal leanings of different translators just as you claim this version does. To me the Bible I read is irrelevant. The differences you may mention to me have to do with with specific doctrinal preferences but I read the general good and bad moral principals portrayed in the Bible. I do not get involved whether the Trinity is true or not, whether hell does or does not exist, ect. With this approach I do not see a problem reading any Bible version.
Also, yesterday I went to Barnes and Nobles and while there I remember this topic and compared the definition of faith on a few different versions of the Bible, some included the word evidence, some did not. One gave an interesting footnote explanation how the first part is the subjective part and how the second part gives the objective part of the defintion. The footnote talks about the greek words on both parts of the defintion.
Thanks for the feedback.
You have a great day.
El Amigo
Seriously...there are plenty of good translations...but the NWT specifically was written by the Watchtower organization with the intention of "proving" their beliefs. They outright changed some parts of it. It's not just a question of style or preference.
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