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Old 09-28-2010, 04:14 PM
 
4,082 posts, read 5,058,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
Jazzymom: This is my 1st post and your response.

Shiloh
I find it absolutely funny that his precious Qur'an gives more glory to Jesus than Mohammed yet he still follows this murdering pedophile.

Mohammed just got pissed that Jews and Christians rejected him after his BS attempt to placate them and then went on a rampage of hate justified by self serving and convenient surahs by one of the pagan gods at the Kaaba which had sons and daughters - of course he got rid of those in his endeavors to be one of the prophets, in God's succession, among the Jews and Christians - he failed and was rejected - hence here we are today dealing with his legacy.


Jazzymom
Sort of a pattern. Islam isn't the only religion to behave like this when others don't abandon their own religion to follow the new one. Christianity behaved the same way towards the Jews.

Both Christianity and Islam are religions that believe they have the only truth and that non believers need to be converted to gain Heaven. Christians and Muslims have violently attacked those who they see as rejecting their message.

The difference between when Mohammed and his followers were rejected was completely different when Christ and His followers were rejected.

For some reason you seemed to have wanted to quote me while making your point that Christianity and Islam were the same. Your generalized point was irrelevent to my 1st post, #67, in refereing to things that happened in the 1st century which was completely removed from the context when Christ and his followers were rejected, even as you said later on in a subsequent post - 'Once Christianity became the state religion it became the religion that persecuted all those it deemed heretical, and later those it deemed non believers.'

Even in my 2nd post, #69, the one you keep refering to as if it is the strating point of this dialogue, I agreed with the above highlighted and general point - and then clarified. You then responded with an emphatic - NO, which is to say you disagreed with me. Here is your post.

'No they first went on a rampage against their fellow christians who they deemed heretics, then they went after the Jews which continued up to the modern era. They also went after the Muslims.

Christianity wasn't much different then Islam....'

My Response:

You mean Catholicism -which was later. 1st Century Christianity did nothing of the sort. Can you give me some comparitive examples? And where in the NT and Jesus teaching do you find such a basis?

Otherwise, I think you are just spouting your generalized frustration for all things 'religous.'

Your response:

No I mean Christianity. I find it in history. The violence of early Christianity is a historical fact.

You do realize my posts were not about the generalized 'history of Christianity'

Christians and Jesus did not FIRST go on a rampage Like Mohammed and his followers - period. Your whole argument with me and my points are not only out of context but wrong.

All this says to me is that you wanted to take another shot at Christianity by using me as a backdrop for your rant - as if to hide the fact that your points were coming out of left field.

What is it in my first and second posts that you disagree with? It should be clear to any rational and unemotionally biased person that I am making a comparison to the ORGINS, FOUNDER,, and FIRST FOLLOWERS of Islam and Christianity - particualrly the vilolence and the teaching of each. None of which contradicts my points.
lol the only one ranting is you..... go figure...
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,523 posts, read 24,764,579 times
Reputation: 9981
How do Judeaism and Christianity feel about the Book of Mormon?
Scientology?
Universal Church of Rev Sun yung Moon?
How do the Eastern Orthodox feel about the Pope?
and on and on
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Old 09-28-2010, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,332 posts, read 2,847,585 times
Reputation: 259
Default Only the feminism combined with becoming bad.

The Koran is rejected for the manner about involvement with the consummation values with a woman, which we all wish to be positive. Nevertheless why do we become bad, and do we have meaningful rights for being bad. In the first place, the other mentioned religions it requires the tolerance for... freedom vs. conditioned response.
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Old 09-29-2010, 05:46 AM
 
69 posts, read 95,871 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
b

Originally Posted by Shiloh1
Yes, I hear you but there are vast differences between Jesus and Mohammed. Early Christians did not go an a rampage of Jewish persucution when they rejected them and Jesus - in fact it was the other way around. That is the foundation of Christianity despite the sporadic justifications of persecution from later so-called Christians - Christianity is based on the teachings of Christ and His life and the writings found in the NT - which is wholly contray to those justifications. I can't say the same for Islam.



I was not responding to the first post but to your post. No I won't go away. This is a public forum so I can respond as I want. But I guess you feel the need to become insulting. Do I care? NO......
I don't think u know much about Islam.

Anyways the people who persecuted Jesus and paul were Jews, not Romans. Maybe u mean as the religion spread the Romans came in.

Persecution of early Christians in Judea

Early Christianity began as a sect among early Jews and according to the New Testament account, Pharisees, including Paul of Tarsus prior to his conversion to Christianity, persecuted early Christians. The early Christians preached a Messiah which did not conform to the expectations of the time.[2] However, feeling that he was presaged in Isaiah's Suffering Servant and in all of Jewish scripture, Christians had been hopeful that their countrymen would accept their vision of a New Israel.[2] Despite many individual conversions, a fierce opposition was found in their countrymen.[2]

The Crucifixion of St. Peter by Caravaggio


Dissention began almost immediately with the teachings of Stephen at Jerusalem (unorthodox by contemporaneous Jewish standards), and never ceased entirely while the city remained.[2] A year after the crucifixion of Jesus, Stephen was stoned for his alleged transgression of unorthodoxy,[3] with Saul (who later converted and was renamed Paul) heartily agreeing.
In A.D. 41, when Agrippa I, who already possessed the territory of Antipas and Phillip, obtained the power of procurator in Judea, hence re-forming the Kingdom of Herod, he was reportedly eager to endear himself to his Jewish subjects and continued the persecution in which James the lesser lost his life, Peter narrowly escaped and the rest of the apostles took flight.[2]
After Agrippa's death, the Roman procuratorship resumed and those leaders maintained a neutral peace, until the procurator Festus died and the high priest Annas II took advantage of the power vacuum to attack the Church and executed James the greater, then leader of Jerusalem's Christians.[2] The New Testament states that Paul was himself imprisoned on several occasions by Roman authorities, stoned by Pharisees and left for dead on one occasion, and was eventually taken as a prisoner to Rome. Peter and other early Christians were also imprisoned, beaten and harassed. A Jewish revolt, spurred by the Roman killing of 3,000 Jews, led to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, the end of sacrificial Judaism, and the disempowering of the Jewish persecutors; the Christian community, meanwhile, having fled to safety in the already pacified region of Pella.[2] The early persecution by the Jews is estimated to have a death toll of about 2,000.[3] The Jewish persecutions were trivial when compared with the brutal and widespread persecution by the Romans.[3]



It was trivial because they were seen as still a small community. I don't think you know much about Islam, at least not the Koran. There is no difference between Muhammad and Jesus. But there is a huge difference between Islam and Christianity. There is no difference between the Gospel and the Koran. Thats because:

The Torah is from God and the Talmud is by man.
The Gospel is from God and the Trinity is from man.
The Koran is from God but the Sunnah is from man.

I follow God and not man.

Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord...." (Surah 5, Al Ma'idah, verse 68)

If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: But many of them follow a course that is evil. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 69)

2.41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

2.89 And when there comes to them a Book from God, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognized, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith.

2.91 When it is said to them, “Believe in what God Hath sent down, “they say, “We believe in what was sent down to us:†yet they reject all besides, even if it be Truth confirming what is with them. Say: “Why then have ye slain the prophets of Allah in times gone by, if ye did indeed believe?â€

Let the People of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 47)
But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have the Law(Torah) before them?- Therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) people of faith. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 43)

Koran confirms the Torah and Gospel and attacks the Talmud and Trinity.

The Muslims came with their own Talmud and called it Sunnah.

Maybe its that Islam u r talking about. Only the Koran is Islam.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,048 posts, read 34,699,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
How do Judeaism and Christianity feel about the Book of Mormon?
Scientology?
Universal Church of Rev Sun yung Moon?
How do the Eastern Orthodox feel about the Pope?
and on and on
Of course, you're absolutely right. But too much common sense doesn't win popularity contests. Besides, the OP obviously had a specific agenda in starting this thread. (Personally, I don't think that was a particularly good platform from which to proselytize, but that could just be me).
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Old 09-30-2010, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 25,254,735 times
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I don't think there IS a particularly good platform from which to proselytize, but this one is one of the less effective ones.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:59 PM
 
69 posts, read 95,871 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Of course, you're absolutely right. But too much common sense doesn't win popularity contests. Besides, the OP obviously had a specific agenda in starting this thread. (Personally, I don't think that was a particularly good platform from which to proselytize, but that could just be me).
One thing I like about the Koranist path. Is we always win arguments. Whether its with sectarian Muslims or neocons or Trinitarians. And it almost always ends with some form of frustration and denial by the other side.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Rivendell
1,385 posts, read 2,460,339 times
Reputation: 1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quranist View Post
One thing I like about the Koranist path. Is we always win arguments. Whether its with sectarian Muslims or neocons or Trinitarians. And it almost always ends with some form of frustration and denial by the other side.
I just read all nine pages of this thread. I never saw the part where you won an argument. Please support this statement with evidence.
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:16 AM
 
69 posts, read 95,871 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzly Friddle View Post
I just read all nine pages of this thread. I never saw the part where you won an argument. Please support this statement with evidence.
I mean its quite obvious the Judaic orthodoxy will never accept Jesus is the Messiah. Never mind the Judeo-Christian slogan we keep hearing since WW2. Thats a slogan that has no historic record.

Plus its quite obvious that Catholics and Protestant differ in everything except Trinitarian theology. Its also quite obvious both the Sunnis and Shias could not sustain their dogma through the Koran alone. They both rely on oral traditions. They both believe in abrogation of Koranic verses and they both have a theocracy dominated by legalism and ritualism many of which have no existence in the Koran.

Its quite obvious. But there is a difference. I noticed Muslims are more honest about their beliefs than Christian or Jews.
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:50 AM
2K5Gx2km
 
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quranist View Post

'There is no difference between Muhammad and Jesus.'

'I noticed Muslims are more honest about their beliefs than Christian or Jews.'
LOL! But I will give you the benifit of the doubt and chalk these statements up to your ignorance rather than honesty isssues. Even your own Qur'an glaringly shows a difference between Jesus and Mohammed.

Did Jesus sin - No
Did Mohammed sin - Yes

Was Jesus born of a Virgin - Yes
Was Mohammed born of a Virgin - No

Did Jesus do miracles - Yes
Did Mohammed do miracles - No

Did Jesus ever murder anyone - No
Did Mohammed ever murder anyone - Yes

Shall I go on?
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