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...and not only does socialism not work, it's totally un-Biblical.
On the contrary:
All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
(Acts 2:44-45)
And the multitude of believers had but one heart and one soul. Neither did any one say that aught of the things which he possessed was his own: but all things were common unto them.
(Acts 4:32)
There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”). He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
(Acts 4:34-37)
This is what the Lord has commanded: Gather of it, every man of you, as much as he can eat; you shall take an omer apiece, according to the number of persons who each of you has in his tent. And the people of Israel did so; they gathered some more, some less. But when they measured it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; each gathered according to what he could eat
(Ex. 16:16-18)
Nowhere in the Bible does it say abortion is a sin. In fact, the god of The Bible is the master of abortion, murder and genocide.
In Exodus, the Hebrew god's own law made the abortion of a child a mere penalty that could be paid for in cash:
"And if men struggle and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."
Exodus 21:22-25
The above makes it clear that a murderer should receive capital punishment, but killing a fetus is not punished with death. This is the closest the Bible comes to commenting on abortion. Judaism’s refusal to unequivocally condemn abortion stems from this.
God must certainly be a capitalist without precedent. He talks about love, but apparently he loves to see war, poverty, corporate profits, greed, and injustice.
With a god like this it's another good reason to be an atheist, like me.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say abortion is a sin. In fact, the god of The Bible is the master of abortion, murder and genocide.
In Exodus, the Hebrew god's own law made the abortion of a child a mere penalty that could be paid for in cash:
"And if men struggle and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."
Exodus 21:22-25
The above makes it clear that a murderer should receive capital punishment, but killing a fetus is not punished with death. This is the closest the Bible comes to commenting on abortion. Judaism’s refusal to unequivocally condemn abortion stems from this.
Please, don't destroy people's belief in that fairy-tale daddy god loving his children, well, the Jewish, Christian and Muslim ones anyway
Thanks for helping to make the case against Bible sanctioned socialism...
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit
All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
(Acts 2:44-45)
Indeed! They voluntarily sold their own possessions and gave voluntarily to each having need.
They didn't give it to the government and they weren't forced to give what the government had previously deemed to belong to all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit
And the multitude of believers had but one heart and one soul. Neither did any one say that aught of the things which he possessed was his own: but all things were common unto them.
(Acts 4:32)
Again, they voluntarily determined to have all things common. No government involvement here either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit
There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”). He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
(Acts 4:34-37)
Great verse! Here we see an example of private property. Property that was theirs to sell. Did they then take the proceeds to the local tax collector for government redistribution?
I would be quite happy to give my proceeds, otherwise destined for taxes, to the church instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit
This is what the Lord has commanded: Gather of it, every man of you, as much as he can eat; you shall take an omer apiece, according to the number of persons who each of you has in his tent. And the people of Israel did so; they gathered some more, some less. But when they measured it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; each gathered according to what he could eat
(Ex. 16:16-18)
It seems to me that this is much more an example of a theocracy than socialism. They looked directly to God and God fed them - and instructed them to share equally.
If you read on you would see that at least some were tempted to hoard and keep what God instructed them not to keep. Lesson: Greed will inevitably rear it's ugly head no matter what sort of political system is established.
You people have a weird opinion of the world. And you abuse terms such as Socialism just because it is a scare word that triggers a certain reaction in certain people. On a scale from 0 (Capitalism) to 100 (Socialism), the US would be at, say, 30, Europe maybe at 35 or 40 max.
Even the US has always been more egalitarian than hard-core capitalists would like. It is simply a different form of redistribution. In the US it is soup kitchens, volunteers, etc., that help masses of people survive and limit the damage capitalists are causing. Without them the US would have long collapsed.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say abortion is a sin. In fact, the god of The Bible is the master of abortion, murder and genocide.
Well, I guess we're all entitled to our opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit
In Exodus, the Hebrew god's own law made the abortion of a child a mere penalty that could be paid for in cash:
"And if men struggle and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."
Exodus 21:22-25
The above makes it clear that a murderer should receive capital punishment, but killing a fetus is not punished with death. This is the closest the Bible comes to commenting on abortion. Judaism’s refusal to unequivocally condemn abortion stems from this.
Do you fancy yourself to be some sort of Theologian?
This portion of scripture, taken in context, is addressing the issue of personal injury. If the woman gives birth prematurely without further injury, the offender is fined. If there is further injury (The child is killed for example) then, there is to be taken a life for a life.
This would be the same as for any murder. Thus, from this scripture, we see that the unborn were to be considered as separately existing human beings with the same rights as all human beings.
By the way, do you even believe in God? If not, you have no basis whatsoever for throwing down moral judgments on anyone - much less God. To do so, would be nothing more than to borrow moral capital from the Judeo-Christian faith.
Unrestrained and unbridled Capitalism is a "sin" in my books. Anything which exploits others cannot be judged ethical. I have nothing against profits but it is a question of level and balance. I believe in "benevolent" capitalism where we try to rein in our greed and selfish desires for money at all costs. Human nature is to be selfish, greedy and callous but I believe we can overcome those shortcomings and behave with a little more respect for other human beings. Acquisition of wealth and power is very attractive to many people but if we lose sight of ethics and social justice we are nothing more than vultures in my eyes. Not paying living wages to employees, when we can afford to is quite simply evil. Making kids work in slave labour conditions so we can have cheap sneakers because we want bigger profits is evil.
I have never understood why most people never reach "enough" in the wealth stakes. We all want financial security. All of us would like a little extra but why such obscene levels of profiteering ? Why can't people be happy without private jets, solid bath-taps and watches which cost more than some people would earn in an entire lifetime ? I will never understand that. There is greed and then there is out of control -obscene beyond belief greed.
Making billions on the backs of slave labour is wrong. It should be a "sin" .
Jesus would IMO certainly not be a capitalist but more the kind of person to give the shirt off his back to those more in need of it than himself. If I believed in him I would look up to him as I could personally never be that selfless.
Greed is not good. And greed is what brought us to our knees. Responsible consumerism is the way to go .
We are all naturally greedy and selfish. What we do with those feelings is what matters. Do we simply ignore the cries of the most vulnerable people on earth to feed our conspicuous consumption or do we evolve into a better breed of entrepeneurs and consumers ( and voters) ? I think we can be better than simply think of ourselves.
Capitalism is about "me, me, me". I prefer to think of "us" and try my best to rise above my own imperfect nature as much as possible.
Last edited by Mooseketeer; 03-21-2010 at 07:01 AM..
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