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But no one doubts the accounts of say, Julius Caesar, do they? Why is that? Why are those historical documents accepted and historical documents that document the life of Jesus (which are far more plentiful than those of Caesar, etc.) suspect and not credible?
The difference between Julius Caesar and Jesus is that there are contemporaries that wrote about wrote about Caesar. Contemporary accounts are more reliable than accounts that were written after the fact. This is the main reason why the accounts of Caesar are considered to be more reliable than those of Jesus.
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For this I apologize, as you're right, I should never make any such assumption about anyone.
I'll give you that. Those are certainly possibilities, albeit they don't have the amount of historical documents to back them up, which is probably why they're discounted in these types of discussions.
Are you claiming that your god has?
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But if you REALLY study this, I mean really, you would see evidential facts backup up the bible.
Well I've really studied world religions (including yours) for over 40 years and haven't seen any evidence. Perhaps you could point out what I have missed.
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Just as Lee Strobel (who has probably been discussed here already) did when he set out to disprove God through research. Just as the lawyer who wrote "Darwin on Trial" found when he tried to set up a case against the existence of God. These people believed what you are saying and set out to prove it, only to prove the opposite and convert to Christianity.
So you think that because some atheists become Christians, it is proof that Jesus exists do you? If so, do you give the same considerations to Christians that become atheists, or Christians that become Muslims or Hindus. Surely, if an atheist becoming a Christian proves Jesus then a Christian becoming a Zoroastrian proves Zoroaster does it not....or is the 'evidence' somehow different in those cases?
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Do the research for yourself. Do the legwork.
I'd wager that many of us atheists here know more about Christianity than you do
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Originally Posted by intmd8r
But no one doubts the accounts of say, Julius Caesar, do they? Why is that?
Because we have statues depicting him that come from when he lived. We have coins from the period with his image and name on them. We have inscriptions on buildings that speak of him. We have reports about him from both his friends and his enemies. We have reports of the wars he undertook and the building he constructed. What do we have for Jesus...just 4 unknown authors writing in a book that has been shown to be largely fable, fiction and fraud.
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Why are those historical documents accepted and historical documents that document the life of Jesus (which are far more plentiful than those of Caesar, etc.) suspect and not credible?
Perhaps you could produce some of these "historical documents' that we appear to have missed. BTW, please save yourself and us some time and effort by leaving out Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny, Africanus, Ignatius, Thallus, Phlegon, Valentinus, Polycarp, Lucian, Galen and Mara Bar Serapian. They have been debunked so many times that it has become a standing joke.
We'll wait with baited breath for your "historical evidence" of your Jesus my good man/woman.
I think you may be confusing Christianity with the perversions of it found in "denominations". Currently, Christian churches are growing like wildfire in the United States and abroad, while Catholicism and the others are falling off.
Oops...Lying for Jesus? We see a lot of that here. The fastest growing group in the US is the group that has no religious affiliation.
In the period between 2001 and 2008
Catholics have increased by 0.6%
Baptists have decreased by 0.5%
Mainline Christianity (Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopalian/Anglican, United Church of Christ, etc.) have decreased by 4.3%
The group that claims no religion increased by 0.9%
U.S Demographics for Religion (http://www.teachingaboutreligion.org/Demographics/map_demographics.htm - broken link)
Everyone who has beliefs, one way or another, always seems to be so very confident that what they believe is true. But that begs the question, (since we're all flawed humans who make mistakes daily):
What if you're wrong?
For me, as Christ Follower, if I'm wrong, I simply take a dirt nap when I die and that's that. In the days when I was a card carrying agnostic, I would have missed out on far more...
So, what happens if you're wrong?
Disclaimer: this isn't intended to start a flame war or illicit angry responses. if reading anything in this thread entices you to post in anger or with the intent to flame anyone, please walk away and find a more constructive outlet for your energy. Thanks!
Because we human beings make mistakes This is normal
If I was wrong have to repair my wrong
that overcome the mistakes give me more confidence
kinda sad to see that most people didn't attempt to answer the question, just made comments about Christianity.
Well, that is to be expected isn't it? The poster asked a question that implies a response to Christianity. In other words the real question he posed is, "what if you are wrong about whatever it is you believe or don't believe about an afterlife and Christianity is correct?"
This is part of the reason for the responses that have been given. Also, for the atheist, it hard to answer a question based upon something you don't believe in the first place. As for myself being an agnostic, my answer would be: "Since I don't know what happens after death, I would have no idea of what would happen if I am wrong."
I suppose the answer to the 'actual' question Runemaster asked (not the one he posted) and the one he wants to hear is, "I suppose I will go to hell then." Is the OP happy now?
To the OP, since you asked a question and I have answered as you want to hear, I now have a question for you:
If I am wrong, then this is my problem and between Creator and myself, so why do you care?
Last edited by Fullback32; 03-22-2010 at 11:12 AM..
Oops...Lying for Jesus? We see a lot of that here. The fastest growing group in the US is the group that has no religious affiliation.
In the period between 2001 and 2008
Catholics have increased by 0.6%
Baptists have decreased by 0.5%
Mainline Christianity (Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopalian/Anglican, United Church of Christ, etc.) have decreased by 4.3%
The group that claims no religion increased by 0.9%
U.S Demographics for Religion (http://www.teachingaboutreligion.org/Demographics/map_demographics.htm - broken link)
Your definition of "mainline Christianity" is just more denominations (Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, Episcopalian, etc), which, when compiled with the data you posted, shows a decrease, as I said. No worries on insinuating I was lying, you obviously misunderstood.
I suppose the answer to the 'actual' question Runemaster asked (not the one he posted)...
since you asked I question and I have answered as you want to hear, I now have a question for you:
If I am wrong, then this is my problem and between Creator and myself. So, why do you care?
I didn't want to "hear" anything of the sort.
The "actual question" is what I posted. Anything else read between the lines is the interpretation of the reader.
Answers to any question reveal a lot about people. Some answer factually without embellishment, some dodge the question, some bury their answers in additional dialogue meant to convey their own thoughts on tangential subjects, some use it as an excuse to voice an affront - allowing them an outlet to their inner turmoil, some try to make assumptions and build a case on those, others back out and don't respond. And, there are a myriad of other ways as well. That's the joy of free will.
To answer your question with another: Why wouldn't I care?
Ahhhhhhh yes; another incomprehensible yet strangely mystical response from Toronto....
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Originally Posted by tgnostic
Well, on the computer you may be bodily counter-considering that the skill at typing has also gone downhill, or maybe you are suddenly enthusiastic to enjoy vanity in not breaking the ten commandments. Anyway, you didn't break those, and the world is showing you the light of Day that You become a successful technician.
No question! But..... what if it's wrong? O. M. G!!!!
(Help us here, san; he's from YOUR country (I'll conveniently disavow past membership for the moment... Is this what gov'mint health care spawns?)
Your definition of "mainline Christianity" is just more denominations (Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, Episcopalian, etc), which, when compiled with the data you posted, shows a decrease, as I said. No worries on insinuating I was lying, you obviously misunderstood.
You didn't even check the link did you?
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Currently, Christian churches are growing like wildfire in the United States and abroad, while Catholicism and the others are falling off.
How can this be misunderstood? It is just not true. Christianity of all denominations has decreased by 0.7% between 2001 and 2008.
Ahhhhhhh yes; another incomprehensible yet strangely mystical response from Toronto....
No question! But..... what if it's wrong? O. M. G!!!!
(Help us here, san; he's from YOUR country (I'll conveniently disavow past membership for the moment... Is this what gov'mint health care spawns?)
Can't help ya....He is from Toronto, so maybe that explains it.
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