Anyone TRULY scared of the afterlife??? (myth, believers, belief, exist)

[SeekerSA]

The afterlife is merely man's way of dealing with the finality of death. When I was 30 something and my kids came along, I too was anxious and accepted the default programming of my parents. What a huge waste of time effort and in particular lots of money.

It is the best scam in history almost like life insurance but you actually have to die to collect... hmm I wonder where the insurance companies dreamed that one up

Yuppers, we get streets of gold that would essentially be worthless unless the NYSE and big rotten businesses are also going to heaven. A golden mansion seems ludicrous as according to the bible, we shall be like angels and they are asexual plus it apparently never gets dark in heaven, seems like your own possie (mansion) is moot as you shall require no privacy. Then of course there is that eternal service and my guess is the crappy gospel musicians will be there to entertain the flock, I guess attendance of eternal service will be mandatory?

I hear they also have a glass portal to view the heathen toasting marsh mellows in the eternal BBQ. The problem here is that all memories are gonna be erased so that we shall not be aware if granny Sybil is the spit item entertainment of the day. Talk about zombies or how do they say, “God did not want robots so he gave us free will”. After 70+ years of servitude it does seem rather quizzical one is going to need to get the Men in Black mind wipe just so you can survive heaven, what is it, forever and ever (and then some). Perhaps the aroma ascending is not the prayers of the saints but rather our scorching flesh. Ol' YHWH really likes the smell of burning flesh, who can blame him BBQs give off awesome aromas especially when you have an "unclean pig" on the spit. Sizzle Sizzle...

One really has to wonder why heathen get resurrected with flesh and the believers get the mind wipe and robes that glow in the dark. Oops, it does not get dark there scratch the glow in the dark attribute.

This place called hell was invented by god just so he could send us there if we happened to use our noggins and came to the conclusion he is not real, pretty much like Santa and the Tooth Fairy, although, those two left evidence of their existence (even of it was your parents pulling a fast one on you)

So now all we have to do is call on Jesus and accept his plan for salvation and we get to avoid this sulphur pit.

Ooooh if it only was that simple.

Just like a Verimark TV ads there is "But wait, there's more..." So while we look back at the cross and see Jesus hanging there with a WT* expression on his face, seeing His "sacrifice" still didn't actually cover us entirely. The "But wait there's more..." is THE secret to getting your ticket to heaven. This includes inter alia (that means "amongst other things", dontcha love legalese?) regular church attendance, tithing, church duties aka righteous works, regular bible reading and a lot of praying and working out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Yet we are saved by grace alone... but you also need works, no you don't, yes you do, no you don’t….

Confused yet?

But then you really are not saved until you have been baptised in water, “Dunk once or dunk thrice, that my dear Watson is the question” (forgive my Shakespear and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's crossover) Elementary ewlde chap, it is not (or "not it is" for Joda fans).

So now you are wet and saved, of course sprinkling like the Catholics do is not scriptural, after all Jesus was baptised in the river Jordan (but we really do not know if he was dunked or if a jug was used, of course that year’s summer rains may have been the determining factor all along) Anyway, you should get wet and saved just to be sure...

Not so quick young grasshopper, you now need the baptism in the Holy Spirit, the evidence of which is incoherent babbling... *cough* I mean speaking in tongues, that is a language no one understands, sounds like incoherent babbling but is apparently very cool and means you now are able to talk to God in a language only he understands. But, but I thought god spoke in all languages...

So now you have the ticket to heaven. You get involved with church activities and instead of hitting the pub Friday nights; you attend the youth services just to demonstrate how dedicated you are. While the elders weigh up your performance in babblespeak err... I mean the gift of tongues of the angels, how much you cry and plead with god for forgiveness and confess what a wretched worm you are, these are the phun parts of the "But wait there is more" mentioned earlier.

Then you start to wonder just where this Jesus fits into the scheme of things. You rarely get to hear sermons of how Jesus loves you other than perhaps Easter time or if they are running a scam *cough* I mean evangelical outreaches to con *slap* I mean save the lost but mostly you hear stuff by this Paul dude had to say and I mean, his teaching really make sense......... After all he is soooo consistent... well so they try and convince you.

Jesus died to save all right?



Bzzzt...WRONG... EPIC PHAIL...



Not if you are gay and not in the skippidie doo da dey way Hmm.. mind you (nevermind) no gay, as in you can't help being attracted to folk with the same plumbing as you. Noooo grasshopper, if you are like this then Satan has deceived you and... Oh yeah I forgot to tell you about Satan. Well in a nutshell he is god's go to bad guy or fall guy for all the bad stuff God cannot stop from happening. Just a tip, never ever say you do not believe in Satan. The folk will give you a pass on doubts about God or Jesus, but NEVER deny Satan, HE IS REAL.


Well, here is a dude that was apparently THE main dude and musician in heaven, not only was he a phenomenal angelic P&W leader of all the angels but he was also a musical instrument of sorts. Hard to visualize? Yeah it is. Anyway this dude called Lucifer (which BTW is just a bad translation and a deliberate dig by some bishop waaay back when when they invented Latin against some other bishop, well that is one of the stories...) Anyways, this Lucifer dude, an Arch angel decides he is like sooo not appreciated and decides to tell God that his terms of service and employment, hierarchical status and working conditions just do not measure up to his god given talent ('scuse the poetic license here) and goes and tells god what for. This really pisses God off big time and he sics his other two Arch angels Gabriel and Michael on Lucifer. All hell breaks loose in heaven and Lucifier is not only kicked out of heaven, he gets a new name Satan. (Actually that too is a mistranslation as the original Hebrew it is Sawtawn or Sawtan and the translators simply made the Ws silent - cool huh? The Hebrew words actually mean adversary)

Anyways, moving on; Luci now grows a tail and morphs into a dragon and manages to grab/sweep with his tale *cough* I mean tail one third of the lesser angels in heaven as he is cast out. All this because he had a real bad performance appraisal, threw some of his toys out the cot he is banished to a lowly planet called earth.

Keeping his rank and serial number, he now becomes the ruler of this planet. He sets out to create havoc on the earth and some of his horny cohorts start mating with daughters of men - that would be women in layman's terms creating a new race called nephilim. These are giants at least 8 feet tall but that's another story.

Now Satan is said to be very active doing dastardly things yet only makes an (error in translation) appearance 3 to 5 times in the Olde part of the bible, you know the part that Christians should not read except when they are hating on the gays or waiting to get raptured. Got it?

Oh Luci aka Satan makes a cameo appearance in one of the episodes of the Jesus story trying to tempt Jesus for 40 days and nights (always amazes me the nights to be emphasised, I mean we all know a day is 24 hours right? WRONG Grasshopper, the Jews had some real strange customs, most of the world knew the day started at sunrise, ended at sunset and then there was that dark period where most folk slept. Not the Jews, their day began at night and ended the following night, I guess they did not get the memo. Maybe they were all into astronomy aka star gazing) Where was I...

Oh yes, this Satan character who also can appear as an angel of light seems to be able to shape shift into any form. Despite the fact that Jesus apparently defeated him by being crucified, he just won't quit. He really has it in for the humans, that is us BTW and god apparently created us too but somehow fell asleep at the assembly line and we are now all defective with a thing called Original Sin™. What’s that you ask? Oh you really are gonna love this tidbit.

See, there were these first two humans God created called Adam and EVE (not Steve for them gay folk) and they are placed in this awesome garden called Eden. The really cool thing is they were both naked. As the story goes, there was this tree. They were allowed to eat of any of the tree’s berries or whatever their fruits were, (vegan only folk) and then God plants this other tree slap bang in the middle of the garden. It too has fruit and they are not allowed to partake of this or else they will die. Remember Satan? Well he makes a cameo appearance here too.

While Adam is occupied with something else (one can only guess what he was up to) Satan appears to Eve as a talking snake. Now we all know that snakes do not have vocal chords so this must have been some cool ventriloquist act that would put Jeff Dunham to shame (y'all know who Jeff Dunham is I assume) Anyways, Jeff... I mean Satan aka the snake aka the dragon; with all these wardrobe changes it is hard to keep track. He convinces Eve (not Steve) that the fruit is actually quite delicious and if she eats it she will become as clever as god; talk about holding a grudge... So Eve takes a bite and nothing happens, she is after all a woman but she does notice she is still alive, yeah just priming you for the sexual discrimination bits that will follow... She wanders off to interrupt Adam (I mean a naked girl in a paradise and he finds something else to do, hmmm I wonder if he was inventing something else...) aaand she says hey dude taste this and suddenly he has an Ah Ha moment and they both suddenly realise they are naked - Well Doh, no clothes different plumbing.. well the story says their eyes were opened and ironically they are still very much alive. All of a sudden there came this loud booming voice from heaven... no wait that comes later.



Anyway, because they ate of the forbidden tree, their one and only commandment and without knowing right from wrong in the first place, well that in a nutshell is where Original Sin™ comes from simple huh?


Oh and for making the snake talk to Eve, the snake loses it legs and has to forever now crawl on the earth. Rule No. 1 "Don’t **** God off" Rule No. 2 "See rule No. 1"


OK that covers the Curriculum Vitae of Luci aka Satan aka the devil aka the dragon and aka the beast. So where were we before this digression? (Don't worry, the bible stories are all told this way, it is called bible hop scotch and really is fun paging backwards and forwards. It helps to "know" the order of bible books as you really look like an idiot if you use the index. The index is printed merely out of tradition something from the publisher’s insistence (I think) and you are not supposed to use it, that is why god gave you a brain, so please use it and memorise the names and order of books. Oh, if you're Catholic, there are more books in your bible but no one expects you or Protestants to actually read the bible. A pack of neon highlighter helps to create the impression that you read the bible often, it also helps to colour code the lies *cough* I mean pertinent scriptures and this colour code comes in useful when playing the game of Cherry Picking that you will be taught later.

OK, in the last episode, you got baptised, in water and with the Holy Spirit and learned to really suck up to God and to impress the elders so you should be saved by now right?

Bzzzzt WRONG...

See if you do the same thing that Adam and Eve did, Oh I forgot to tell you once you get saved that really pisses Satan off and he is out to get you every chance he gets but you are not saved unless you rinse repeat and recycle all the sucking up and works otherwise you are not a True Christian™ and you are not really saved. Just one slip up like looking at Fred *slap* I mean Fredrika with any lustful thoughts like how she would look without clothes on - well if you happen to walk outside of the church and get hit by a bus (that always seems to appear as church services end) and you have not repented, grovelling like a snake....Hmmm that does not sound right… well you get the idea, the bus hits you and you are toast, you are on your way to hell. I wonder if it is Bus No 666 and why oh why do folk not look both ways before crossing the street? Maybe it is just that vision you had and it distracts you. Oh well.

They will hold a fine Christian funeral and tell everyone you are in a better place (like being dead in a box is real appealing). Folk like to lie to each other for some reason but remember unless you grovelled and confessed that lustful thought about Freda (see you cannot even remember her name), the place you're really at is really hot and smelly. (Then again that could just be the box you are in and your rotting corpse)

Now if the bus missed you…

You can ask for forgiveness and all is well (well till next time) “But wait there is moar.....

There is this thing called the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Now usually gifts are free with no strings attached right. Not these gifts dude(tte) You have to be sanctified and holy (usually that means a heap load of grovelling and self-loathing) and then if you really ask God nicely and pester him till he capitulates (Imagine “Oh shaddup already”) then you may get one of nine gifts. The gift of babble speak… I mean speaking in angelic tongues is not really considered a gift but a sign to unbelievers that you're stark raving mad *cough* I mean sanctified and saved and that your belief is real based on (it’s a mystery so I cannot tell you) but tongues is listed ninth on the list just in case nothing else ever happens. Just how the other eight gifts are supposed to work is one of those mystery thingies too but one of them is discernment (usually the ones that have this gift are for some reason the busy bodies and gossipers). Others include prophesy, word of wisdom, word of knowledge, interpretation of babble speak - I mean tongues.

So it is real cool if you have some or all of these gifts (mileage may vary)

So now you should be saved right?

Bzzzzt WRONG!

Well it appears those gifts are not really that special but they will make you feel guilty if you do not at least have one of them and will teach you how important they are and how it makes your walk with the Lord that much easier; which is a blatant lie. NOTHING is supposed to make it easier; you think Jesus died for nothing - huh?

“OK what do I need to do?” I hear you ask. Just after the bits on the gifts, the very next chapter in fact they are made null and void and LOVE is what it is all about.

Well dang Bubba, why did you not tell me in the first place?

Aaaah but it is not no simple young grasshopper, there are different types of LOVE. There is Agape Love (yeah you now have to learn some Greek and Latin words too, to sound intelligent of course) Fellatio love (sounds kinky) and a few others. You MUST become a skilled practitioner in ALL of these loves but the most important is Agape LOVE, you know the love Jesus had when he died on the cross to save the world and whose "free gift" you simply need receive? THAT LOVE. Well THAT LOVE implies suffering for Jesus. (Seems his suffering did not appease his angry Old Testament daddy who also happens to be himself.) You will be tested tempted and you MUST overcome (by the Blood of the Lamb of course)

So I do all of this and I am saved?

Yeah but watch but for buses after church and don't even think of Sue Ellen you mental polygamist.

Oh wait there's that loving your neighbour thingy they hardly talk about in church - I think that only applies to the neighbours that go to the same church as you and not the other 29,999 other deluded, wayward heretic churches and especially not Gays, never love Gays, that is an unforgivable sin, not sure about lesbians though, maybe it is because that is hot and kinky... I think it is still OK to love lesbians.

Really that is all one has to do to be saved but I am sure there are some key things I may have missed. Sometimes it gets really hard to keep up with all the revisions of faith so just do what everyone else does, make up your own version; one more won’t really be noticed or frowned upon.


All this and you will make it to heaven.


Oh, and if your pastor does not preach on the horrors of hell at least 4 times a year, find another church that does it frequently, only those churches are bible based churches.

[reed067]

Originally Posted by Wakyco

Is anyone truly scared of the afterlife?

No.

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Ah . . . but it does unless you can suggest what can take the energy composite in the form of "monumentus consciousness" and transform it into something else.

That is where your assumptions come in. You are assuming there is more to consciousness than the energy that is released from our food and is firing around the neurons in our brain. That is an assumption you need to evidence somewhat more than you have.

We have a good understanding of how energy works in the body, how and where it is released from our foods, distributed around the body, and how it dissipates from there in the form of heat. The energy in my brain that is causing consciousness DOES transform into something else. Electrical and heat energy which dissipates into the environment around me.

All you are doing is assuming there is more energy to this - which you have never measured or observed or evidences anywhere - instead choosing to explain it away with a wave of your hand and references to things like "Dark matter" and "Dark Energy".


Therein lies the weakness of your position. The energy we know is connected with consciousness does transform into other things and we know very well what, where and how. Your consciousness worldview is an assumption based on further assumptions of things we have neither observed nor even have reason to hypothesize yet. If there is more to consciousness than the phenomenon emergent from those patterns of energy then the onus is on you to establish that - not for us to refute your assumption.


This is a thread about the after life and we must stay on topic where we can - so if you want to establish that human experience, sentience, consciousness or subjectivity survives death then we need much more evidence for this than "I had a feeling one day" or "There is energy in your head and I want to know where it goes".

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I am witnessing and explaining my views . . . NOT proselytizing.

I am not going to equivocate over the meanings of "Witnessing" "proselytizing" and "soap boxing". You can choose whichever one you feel fits best. “Explaining” however you are most certainly not doing. You had a fuzzy happy feeling while meditating one day – I get that. We all know it – you have said it often enough.

The issue most people appear to have however when replying to your posts is that a happy fuzzy subjective feeling you had while sitting on a floor one day – while possibly asleep dreaming for all we or you know – is not a valid basis for the wild and fantastical notions you build on that foundation and back up with no evidence except reference to things which have conveniently not been found, observed or measured yet. Like “Dark energy”.

By all means throw out the hypothesis that the universe itself is sentient and / or conscious. But do so realizing that you have not evidenced that notion even a little and referencing an alleged and unverifiable personal experience you had while possibly asleep decades ago as the sole basis for it is – a) convincing to no one and – b) certainly does not fall under the description of “Explaining” anything.

[thrillobyte]

Originally Posted by Born&BredIrish

Why fear being dead, you won't feel the worms eating you.

Yes, but what if there IS an afterlife and the worms are eating you. What do you do then?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by monumentus

That is where your assumptions come in. You are assuming there is more to consciousness than the energy that is released from our food and is firing around the neurons in our brain. That is an assumption you need to evidence somewhat more than you have.

We have a good understanding of how energy works in the body, how and where it is released from our foods, distributed around the body, and how it dissipates from there in the form of heat. The energy in my brain that is causing consciousness DOES transform into something else. Electrical and heat energy which dissipates into the environment around me.

I have endeavored to do so on many occasions and encountered either an unwillingness (or inability) to engage in the kind of abstract thought and philosophical speculation that is required to see why I am certain it must be so. ALL I ever get is blanket dismissals, assertions that there is no reason to think so, etc. . . . never any substantive rebuttal explaining WHY there is no reason to think so. My attempts to make understanding the mass/energy equivalence accessible to lay readers . . . even with more detailed explication of the mathematical underpinnings . . . received nothing but the requisite dismissals and derision seeking to pretend I do not know what I am talking about. There have been no counter illustrations or refutations of the math I presented . . . or any thought experiments to refute mine, ever.

YOUR above assumptions that consciousness is nothing more than the list of individual energy transforms is unsupportable because our consciousness is separately identifiable and interacts with the universe as an identifiable composite energy form . . . you and me for instance. It is not and cannot be an illusion. ONLY real energy forms interact with the universe identifiably . . . whether or not we can directly measure them with our current technology . . eg., dark energy/matter or consciousness.

All you are doing is assuming there is more energy to this - which you have never measured or observed or evidences anywhere - instead choosing to explain it away with a wave of your hand and references to things like "Dark matter" and "Dark Energy".

All you are doing is pointing your "God of the Gaps" gun at me and calling it the "No God of the Gaps." The difference is I have plausible and supportable reasons for my assertions . . . you do not.

Therein lies the weakness of your position. The energy we know is connected with consciousness does transform into other things and we know very well what, where and how. Your consciousness worldview is an assumption based on further assumptions of things we have neither observed nor even have reason to hypothesize yet. If there is more to consciousness than the phenomenon emergent from those patterns of energy then the onus is on you to establish that - not for us to refute your assumption.

Wrong. The energy we know as consciousness has never been shown to transform into anything else. Since energy cannot be destroyed . . . THAT is evidence of its continuing existence that you need to hypothesize an end to. It is why an after life is plausible and until otherwise refuted must be given credibility.

By all means throw out the hypothesis that the universe itself is sentient and / or conscious. But do so realizing that you have not evidenced that notion even a little and referencing an alleged and unverifiable personal experience you had while possibly asleep decades ago as the sole basis for it is – a) convincing to no one and – b) certainly does not fall under the description of “Explaining” anything.

I am explaining my views AND the reasons I hold them with such certainty. That is ALL I am trying to do. IF they are unconvincing to you that is not my problem . . . but it IS explanation.

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I have endeavored to do so on many occasions and encountered either an unwillingness (or inability) to engage in the kind of abstract thought and philosophical speculation that is required to see why I am certain it must be so.

Yes - as usual people not accepting your evidence free claims is of course their failing and they must somehow be biased (unwilling) or stupid (unable) to see your position or recognise your own self perceived brilliance here.

It simply is not so. You are making claims that the human consciousness and subjectivity survives death and lives in an after life but you are not supporting those claims at all. The only thing you have ever offered on the subject is a vague description of an event - which may never actually have happened or you may have dreamed it - in which you had a nice feeling one day and decided to call that feeling "god".

If you want to stop obtaining "blanket dismissals" then simply stop making "blanket assertions". A simpler Quid pro quo I can not suggest to you.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

never any substantive rebuttal explaining WHY there is no reason to think so.

I have explained - and seen others do so too - that the onus is not on us to do so. If you provide no evidence, just assertions, then there is nothing to rebut. Evidence your claims and discourse and rebuttal and maybe even acceptance of your views become options available to us.

Link your assertions to nothing more than a feeling you had while possibly asleep one day - before hand waving the evidence you require into place holders like "Dark matter" - gets us nowhere however. There is nothing to rebut there.

You appear to think that by asserting your position without evidence that we have to prove the negative and show why the assertion is groundless or wrong. That is not how it works. YOU make the claim then YOU evidence it and we discuss those evidences.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Wrong. The energy we know as consciousness has never been shown to transform into anything else.

False. All the energy in our brains can be measured and it's transformation measured. Energy in our body is lost through things like heat dissapation. If you can measure a single joule of energy in the brain and show that the ultimate destination of it is unknown THEN you might have a point. Until then however you are just disappating your own energy by means of hot air.

Unless of course you are inventing another energy without basis. But this would be blatantly dishonest. You have not measured it, shown it exists, or anything of that sort... but expect others to show where it "went".

There is no credibility in inventing and declaring the existence of an energy you can neither evidence, observe or measure - and then demanding that we explain where it goes or refute your claims it lives on after death. This "energy" you are inventing is in no way different from "soul" which theists harp on about and which they too have not evidenced in even the smallest way.

[TempusFugitive]

Originally Posted by monumentus

There is no credibility in inventing and declaring the existence of an energy you can neither evidence, observe or measure - and then demanding that we explain where it goes or refute your claims it lives on after death. This "energy" you are inventing is in no way different from "soul" which theists harp on about and which they too have not evidenced in even the smallest way.

Well, consciousness exists. You know it. I know it. It would take someone being bound and determined to be very contrary to state that consciousness doesn't exist.

That said, I'd want to know what form he thinks this energy takes place. Specifically: Is our 'consciousness' the same as when we're unconscious?

Just as assuredly that we know that consciousness exists, we know that sleep and unconscious states exist. What is the state known as death?

Is it the same consciousness as a dreamless sleep? If so, then that's no consciousness at all.

If God exists, and I believe he does, it is a moral imperative for us that we not only discover the secret to immortality(Death came, biblically, from the introduction of sin - Immortality grants us the opportunity to perfect ourselves and atone for our finite crimes. This would indicate a return to a state of grace.), but also to discover a way to bring those who were dead back to life(The Resurrection was a promise. By doing so, we advance God's timeline).

If God doesn't exist, then it is a moral imperative for us that we not only discover the secret to immortality(Man has a finite existence in an infinite universe. That is an absurdity. Our minds seek logic and that is not logical) but also to discover a way to bring those who were dead back to life(While individuals may seek escape from existence, many wouldn't. If you want to erase yourself from existence, that's fine - But you should have the opportunity not to).

Regardless, it is a moral imperative to bring people back, restore them to a perfect body free from madness and sickness and offer them a chance to choose life rather than oblivion.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by TempusFugitive

Well, consciousness exists. You know it. I know it. It would take someone being bound and determined to be very contrary to state that consciousness doesn't exist.

I doubt many people are denying that. There are some of course who will but I have yet to hear from them. That it exists is really not in question. What exactly it is and how it works is an open question and alas what we see all too often from users like the one flinging ad hominems on the thread is that open questions will always draw "God of the gaps" religious declarations.

Yes: there is consciousness.

Yes: the workings of it and full understanding of it is still quite mysterious to us.

No: Our ignorance on these issues does not mean there is a god, that consciousness is made up of some mystic dark energy neither observed nor measured, or that said energy survives our death let alone survives it in exactly the same coherent patterns required for consciousness to survive with it.

By all means treat consciousness as an open question and open line of inquiry. But allow alarm bells to go off when people start touting theistic nonsense about it. All the questions you ask in your post are good ones. Let us all work as a species to find the answers. But beware mightily of the ones who... while we are looking for those answers.... will insert their fantasies in the gaps and declare them real.

Originally Posted by TempusFugitive

If God exists, and I believe he does

Rather than simply believing it does you might be better off trying in some way to establish that it does. Evidence, argument, data, reasons to lend the idea even a modicum of credibility would be a good start. Otherwise you are on your own on this "moral imperative" which is ok too. If you want any of the rest of us to join you in it ever however then simply declaring the existence of god in your own head and to yourself is not useful.

I however see no moral imperative towards immortality, nor would I wish it if it were offered.

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by TempusFugitive

That said, I'd want to know what form he thinks this energy takes place. Specifically: Is our 'consciousness' the same as when we're unconscious?

I think we can only work with the information we have - while always seeking more. We should resist strongly those who invent data to suit their answers.

What we know for a fact is that electrical energy shoots around our brain in many patterns. We also know that if we disrupt or influence those patters then we disrupt and influence subjective human experience and consciousness.

This tells us that whatever consciousness is - it is very much linked to the electrical patterns in the brain. Consciousness and Unconsciousness are just the results of influencing those patterns. Death is the total cessation of that energy at all and the patterns with it.

What the seller of Mysticism wants to convince you of is that there is more to it than that. He may be right for all we know but he currently has no basis for the claim. All he does is invent this "other" energy - declares consciousness is/uses this - and it survives death. Again he might turn out to be right - who knows. The fact NOW however is that there is no reason to think him right and his hypothesis consists of nothing at this time but makey up fantasy.

Were this energy to be evidences - observed - measured or anything like that then we would have new data and his conversation on the subject will take one step out of woo and one step into reality. Until that time however it is just "God of the gaps" style rhetoric where someone steps into human ignorance - lives there - and decorates the walls with whatever takes their fancy.

[KCfromNC]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

The energy we know as consciousness has never been shown to transform into anything else.

Not true. It's transformed every time an EEG is used - electrical impulse in the brain are transformed into something which can be recorded and displayed.