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First, let me say that I wanna smack the person who made ch**k a racial slur against the Chinese because now I can't ever type "ch**k in your armor."
So, uh, the weak point of your armor is that living a good life or being morally righteous is pretty much irrelevant. You'll just be good more or less automatically if you become saved, so living a moral life really doesn't count for much.
No, what matters, what REALLY gets you into heaven is worship. You know, bootlicking, ass kissing, brown nosing, babbling ridiculous praises, singing enough hyms to make a frog go hoarse, and generally putting this God/savior/messiah first and foremost above everyone and everything else.
That is NOT the hallmark of a good and loving God. That is the hallmark of the tinhorn dictator. It's all about the ego of this God - it isn't about what YOU do at all, aside from performing a sufficient amount of groveling.
Now, I'm pretty sure that if a cult built itself around you - and suddenly people began praising you, loving you, hanging on your every word and fulfilling your every command, you would probably feel VERY uncomfortable and would ask these people to stop.
That's because you're humble. No, no, it has nothing to do with whether or not you deserve to be worshiped because even if you were deserving, would you want the worship? This just illustrates the superior morality of humanity, that a truly good person would never feel comfortable with worship - but God/Jesus not only feels very comfortable with it, he demands and requires it. Without groveling, the door to heaven will be forever closed.
Unless, of course, it's all one great big messianic doomsday cult, and then it starts to make sense.
If God was the egotistical dictator that you suggest then why doesn't He force everyone to bow down and worship him as His minions? Would a dictator of a country let someone in the population go around talking trash about Him? No he would most likely murder or torture the person. Yet God allows man to choose a path away from Him, thumb his nose at God, and pervert the goodness of His creation. He deserves to be worshipped because everything we have and accomplished would not be possible without God. He desires a personal relationship with each individual human and to guide their life on a path of righteousness. That's not indicative of a dictator.
Last edited by jeffbase40; 05-27-2014 at 08:52 AM..
If God was egotistical dictator that you suggest then why doesn't He force everyone to bow down and worship him as His minions? Would a dictator of a country let someone in the population go around talking trash about Him? No he would most likely murder or torture the person. Yet God allows man to choose a path away from Him, thumb his nose at God, and pervert the goodness of His creation. He deserves to be worshipped because everything we have and accomplished would not be possible without God. He desires a personal relationship with each individual human and to guide their life on a path of righteousness. That's not indicative of a dictator.
You're right in that an egotistical dictator would force everyone to bow down and worship, similar to what the Bible says will happen at judgement day. But, because the Bible God doesn't exist, he cannot and will not do so. Since the Bible writers had not seen this occur and did not expect it to occur, they left this for the mythical afterlife, when the Abrahamic God will eventually have everyone bow down to him.
If God was egotistical dictator that you suggest then why doesn't He force everyone to bow down and worship him as His minions? Would a dictator of a country let someone in the population go around talking trash about Him? No he would most likely murder or torture the person. Yet God allows man to choose a path away from Him, thumb his nose at God, and pervert the goodness of His creation. He deserves to be worshipped because everything we have and accomplished would not be possible without God. He desires a personal relationship with each individual human and to guide their life on a path of righteousness. That's not indicative of a dictator.
The problem with this outlook,ou are pretending that there is something out there when in fact your god only occupies the 6 or so inches between your ears. You really cannot have the proverbial relationship with yourself. Everything we've accomplished is ssolely due to our collective efforts.
If Mercedes or BMW said they had launched a new car but no one has or can see it, you just gotta have faith it exists. Would you buy that car? Just like that, one would expect it a reasonable request that the so called creator of everything make an appearance once in awhile - no?
Yates testimony is contradictory to the Bible. That's why I reject it. Try again since you haven't made a single valid point.
Precisely - you claimed that personal revelation constitutes evidence, yet now you've amended that to admit that you only consider it evidence when it comports to the version of the Bible you want to believe.
That's the point - your claim was false from the beginning, and I wanted you to tacitly concede that fact, which you've finally done.
Personal revelation is not evidence. And any definition that has personal revelation being evidence only when it jibes with what you want to believe is nothing but self-absorption.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
OLD COVENANT examples. Jesus did away with the old law.
It's always entertaining (and predictable) how God apparently changes (ie, gets his meds right and loses the homicidal lunacy), yet the people who hold that this is the case insist that a change back to old behavior can't possibly happen. To call this logic 'tortured' is a massive understatement.
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Originally Posted by ll0OoO0ll
When God reveals his message upon chosen human beings, it comes with a textual evidence and we must analyze it
Hot air from the mouth that "God has spoken to me" doesn't work.
And another poster serves up the notion that only assertions which comport with the pre-determined position matter. All assertions to the contrary are ignored. The former get the vaunted title of 'evidence', while the latter are rejected because they give you a frowny-face.
You're right in that an egotistical dictator would force everyone to bow down and worship, similar to what the Bible says will happen at judgement day. But, because the Bible God doesn't exist, he cannot and will not do so. Since the Bible writers had not seen this occur and did not expect it to occur, they left this for the mythical afterlife, when the Abrahamic God will eventually have everyone bow down to him.
There you go claiming again that the Bible is fiction. Got any proof to back that up? Wishful thinking doesn't count.
There you go claiming again that the Bible is fiction. Got any proof to back that up? Wishful thinking doesn't count.
My proof is your LACK of proof that it ISN'T fiction.
There are scores of things in the Bible that are just too over-the-top to even consider being true. For instance, knowing the diversity of the human species, do you REALLY think it is even remotely possible that every single person on the planet was evil except for, conveniently enough, one family who, also conveniently enough, lived in the same place, that place being, yeah - conveniently enough, in the Middle East where God had concentrated 100% of his power and influence?
Don't even get me started on talking snakes, virgin births, bears ripping apart kids, and resurrections.
If God was the egotistical dictator that you suggest then why doesn't He force everyone to bow down and worship him as His minions?
Because God wants glassy-eyed, dim-witted "yes men." He doesn't want his followers to criticize him, question him, analyze what he does, or otherwise diverge from God's own opinions and plans. He wants people who will blindly obey - and if that means doing things like, say, murdering your own children or wiping out an entire city right down to the animals, God wants people who won't even THINK about the reasons why much less give voice to the question.
For more than a few dictators from Hitler to Kim Il Jung, do you think force had to be used to get the masses to adore and obey them? Of course not. Just spew a message the dictator thinks the people will like and watch the freely-given worship commence. Some dictators would rather the worship and adulation be voluntary because there is less of a chance for widespread dissent.
Now, I don't think God is doing anything at all because I don't believe in God - and if there IS a God, it's not the one any human on this planet worships. But for those who authored the "bylaws" of their fledgeling cult, claiming that God is letting us choose for ourselves was a pretty good idea.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Would a dictator of a country let someone in the population go around talking trash about Him?
Sure ... because if God started killing everyone who talked trash about him, sooner or later, people would figure out the pattern and then we would all know God exists. God is bound by special rules that earthly dictators are not - because God wants to rule without anyone actually knowing for sure that he even exists.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
He deserves to be worshipped because everything we have and accomplished would not be possible without God.
This is an interesting statement when contrasted with the Christian doctrine that God gives humanity a purpose. But if God healed the sick man, if God built that skyscraper, if God finds your car keys, then what purpose DO we serve other than being God's puppets? Do humans do anything at all? Or are we just a collection of hammers and screwdrivers that God uses to tweak his creation.
Yet if every human stopped doing what they do and sat in a chair, doing nothing else, what do you think would happen? Do you think God would step in and personally ensure that civilization runs as it should? Or would everything fall apart, decay, and collapse? If your answer is the latter choice, then perhaps you should rethink how much God is actually involved in the things that we do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
He desires a personal relationship with each individual human and to guide their life on a path of righteousness.
A fairly large number of atheists have found a righteous path all by themselves. And I cannot have a personal relationship with a being that will not hug me, sit up until the wee hours talking with me, or who won't hold my hand. No, I want someone who is really HERE, not a figment of imagination that seems real based on how badly I want to believe it IS real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
That's not indicative of a dictator.
In the entirety of the Bible, including the Apocrypha books, how many times did God let humanity vote on whether they wanted to adopt one of God's idiotic rules? I'll give you a hint - it's a number that could serve as a spare tire for your car if it was more round and less oval.
I mean, God wouldn't even let humanity vote on whether or not putting tassles on the corners of your cloak was all that necessary. He had rules on how to take a dump, how to style your hair, whether or not you were allowed to shave - this God did not leave any stone unturned when it came to personal choice (note I said stone - not boulder, because he left plenty of boulders unturned such as slavery, pedophilia, rape, and others; and rape was only addressed as it pertained to marriage). '
So yeah, I think there is plenty of dictating going on.
My proof is your LACK of proof that it ISN'T fiction.
There are scores of things in the Bible that are just too over-the-top to even consider being true. For instance, knowing the diversity of the human species, do you REALLY think it is even remotely possible that every single person on the planet was evil except for, conveniently enough, one family who, also conveniently enough, lived in the same place, that place being, yeah - conveniently enough, in the Middle East where God had concentrated 100% of his power and influence?
Don't even get me started on talking snakes, virgin births, bears ripping apart kids, and resurrections.
Lack of proof does not automatically prove anything. For example, a missionary goes to a lost Amazon tribe and tells them about snow. They've never seen it or experienced snow. They don't think his testimony is convincing that snow exists. Using your logic, snow absolutely does not exist. There could be compelling biblical evidence that has yet to be discovered. Likewise, I don't think it's fair to say that the Exodus absolutely never happened because there are no archaeological finds supporting it. There could be a great find still buried in the desert out there. Of course, you'll never convince someone who doesn't want to believe.
Funny how the early stories in the Bible are set in the exact same region where most scholars will say writing begin which is the Middle East or Mesopotamia. So the location fits for me. Also, I can believe that everyone except Noah was evil. Over the weekend, I read that Muslims in Syria actually crucified Christian boys and put their bodies on display. Apparently, it is making a comeback over there. I also read that a pregnant Christian woman was murdered, her baby pulled out of the stomach and then they hanged the baby with the umbilical cord. Can it get any more brutal than that? There is just something about people over in that region that is savage. I can imagine that it was even worse in OT days.
Last edited by jeffbase40; 05-27-2014 at 11:17 AM..
Lack of proof does not automatically prove anything. For example, a missionary goes to a lost Amazon tribe and tells them about snow. They've never seen it or experienced snow. They don't think his testimony is convincing that snow exists. Using your logic, snow absolutely does not exist. There could be compelling biblical evidence that has yet to be discovered. Likewise, I don't think it's fair to say that the Exodus absolutely never happened because there are no archaeological finds supporting it. There could be a great find still buried in the desert out there. Of course, you'll never convince someone who doesn't want to believe.
Funny how the early stories in the Bible are set in the exact same region where most scholars will say writing begin which is the Middle East or Mesopotamia. So the location fits for me. Also, I can believe that everyone except Noah was evil. Over the weekend, I read that Muslims in Syria actually crucified Christian boys and put their bodies on display. Apparently, it is making a comeback over there. I also read that a pregnant Christian woman was murdered, her baby pulled out of the hook and then they hanged the baby with the umbilical cord. Can it get any more brutal than that? There is just something about people over in that region that is savage. I can imagine that it was even worse in OT days.
I retract what I posted earlier.
My mistake.
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