Is There a Difference Between an Atheist/Agnostic and a Fallen Away Christian? (grace, hell)
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I've been wondering about this for some time but since it is a touchy subject I hesitated to start the thread. But the again I wanted to discuss so here goes. .
I have noticed some people on these forums who consider themselves atheists or agnostics say that they were once Christians, or practiced Christianity and accepted Christ, or at least were brought up and exposed to Christianity. . Somewhere along the line they stopped believing or began doubting. . the Blble says once one has come to the knowledge of Christ it is a dangerous (paraphrasing-don't have the scripture handy) thing after one has tasted the gifts of the spirit. . .
Are these people fallen away Christians who find it more acceptable to consider themselves atheists. . are they just taking this position and fooling themselves?
Well, first of all, it's definitely not more acceptable to call oneself an atheist. Not when the majority of this country is Christian. That's an observation, I'm not an atheist. So I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion or whether I'm reading that statement the right way.
As for the majority of atheists or agnostics having once been Christian, again, given the majority of Christianity here, naturally they/we (I guess you'd consider me agnostic? I do believe in God, just not the Biblical God) were once Christians as a whole. That's just a case of sheer numbers. Most people were "born" Christian (born into a Christian family) in this country, period. Most stay Christian, some end up self-identifying as agnostic or atheist.
The scriptures may well say it's dangerous to have once been Christian and then fall away from Christianity, but that's not a big surprise. The scriptures are threatening in a whole variety of ways; that's just one way. IMO it was put in there to ensure that people didn't "dabble" in Christianity but then decide against it later. It's basically all about fear, as far as I can tell. I'm not 100% sure, though, since I don't know the actual scripture you're talking about. Maybe if you find it, you can post it to get opinions.
ETA: I forgot to address your question about how non-Christians are fooling themselves. If we actually believed, we wouldn't want to fool ourselves. That would be totally bizarre. Think about it. Any atheist on this entire planet would certainly choose to be happy as opposed to literally having his or her skin burned off, being starved and dehydrating for trillions of years if he or she really believed these were the choices. There really is no person in the world who would electively choose hell; that should be a given. That's just common sense.
I believe that if one is truly a Christian and has accepted Christ as their Saviour then there's no going back. If one says they used to be Christian and our now athiest then one of two things happened: 1. they never really understood what it meant to be a Christian and therefore wern't in their heart, or, 2. Satan has got such a strong hold of them and pulled them away from the truth
There is no way that someone who is a Christian and has accepted Jesus Christ as their Saviour would turn their back on Him without the influence of Satan.
It is impossible have for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted goodness of the word of God, and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss, they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. .
It is impossible have for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted goodness of the word of God, and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss, they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. .
New International Version
Pretty serious words.
Yes, pretty serious words, chosen among various other words that *human beings* decided by vote to include.
That's kind of serious too.
It might also bear noting that the four gospels, MML&J, were eventually left to divine magic for their selection. At Nicea, a "sortes sanctorum" was used. Pappus describes how about 40 possible contenders for the Gospels were left on a table overnight:
"Having promiscuously put all the books referred to the Council for determination under a communion table in a church, they (the Bishops) besought the Lord that the inspired writings might get upon the table, while the spurious ones remained underneath. And it happened accordingly." ... "When the Bishops returned to the Council room on the following morning, the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were resting on the communion table. Their presence in the New Testament is due to the art of divination, for practicing which the Church subsequently condemned men and women as sorcerers, enchanters and witches, and burned them by the thousands."
Magic was used to determine these books. Divination. Not even to mention that the obvious logical answer would be that someone, a human put them there. But let's put that aside for the moment since that's just supposition. These *Christians* relied on *magic* to choose these books...something that is condemned by Christianity. But, being the meat of the NT, basically, the Gospels AS CHOSEN BY HUMAN OPINION, or MAGIC, or FOUL PLAY--one of the three, or a combination--are what your Hebrews quote is telling us we better believe in, and keep believing in or we'll go to hell? Do you see how we non-Christians might not be such terrible people after all--how instead we might be looking for the *real* truth of God and what God wants from us? There is so much evidence of foul play and personal motive in the bit-by-bit choosing of the canon, it hardly seems Godly to me. So in a roundabout way I'm pointing out that, while you say *a once-believer who now disbelieves is even more bound for hell*, I submit to you that *a once-believer who now disbelieves has very little choice in his or her disbelief given the evidence*.
Last edited by JerZ; 06-10-2007 at 01:30 PM..
Reason: Edited for the Nicea information
As for the majority of atheists or agnostics having once been Christian, again, given the majority of Christianity here, naturally they/we (I guess you'd consider me agnostic? I do believe in God, just not the Biblical God) were once Christians as a whole. That's just a case of sheer numbers. Most people were "born" Christian (born into a Christian family) in this country, period. Most stay Christian, some end up self-identifying as agnostic or atheist.
Of course, you have the right to self-identify as whatever you please but perhaps you should investigate the term deism/deistic, JerZ? It might fit well what you're experiencing religiously.
Back on track- I don't consider myself a fallen away Christian. I consider myself enlightened. Also, there are many people (including a good friend of mine) who grew up in atheistic households. I don't think these people are fallen away anything, unless they came into Christianity later in their lives, then turned once again to agnosticism / atheism.
Good question spunky1. It does seem like alot of atheists were religious at some point in their lives. I never was a believer although I did go to church when I was young because my Mother's religious and I had friends that went to church. When I was in my early teens I wasn't sure what I thought which is typical of any teenager. I've said before that I think that most people tend to stick to their beliefs once they've become established for the remainder of their lives. I really think that's true for the great majority of people. It probably takes a longer time for certain individuals to decide what they really believe even if they call themselves a Christian or an atheist at some point. Eventually most of them will fall into one camp or the other and it will feel right to them.
I believe that if one is truly a Christian and has accepted Christ as their Saviour then there's no going back. If one says they used to be Christian and our now athiest then one of two things happened: 1. they never really understood what it meant to be a Christian and therefore wern't in their heart, or, 2. Satan has got such a strong hold of them and pulled them away from the truth
There is no way that someone who is a Christian and has accepted Jesus Christ as their Saviour would turn their back on Him without the influence of Satan.
There are many things that cause a change in one's worldview - in both directions - not the least of which is trajedy. Near-death experiences may cause an atheist to believe. Interpreted injustice may cause a believer to lose faith.
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but perhaps you should investigate the term deism/deistic, JerZ? It might fit well what you're experiencing religiously.
