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Old 05-05-2010, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,127,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Points 2, 3, & 5 pale in importance to #4. Calvinism is still a minority. Universal salvation is a minority. Nevertheless, I will grant you that there is some ambiguity on #2 & maybe even #5.
Why, if god is competent, is there any ambiguity at all?
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,485 posts, read 12,884,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Why, if god is competent, is there any ambiguity at all?
Because the flesh is weak & easily swayed by nice-sounding arguments.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,127,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Because the flesh is weak & easily swayed by nice-sounding arguments.
So... what you are implying here is that god is not able to create a book that is stronger than a man's flesh is weak?

Do I get that correctly?
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
So... what you are implying here is that god is not able to create a book that is stronger than a man's flesh is weak?

Do I get that correctly?
Only those in tune with the Spirit of God have a true understanding of God's Word. Some are blinded by worldly ideas.

Ephhesians 4

17So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:38 PM
 
30,902 posts, read 33,150,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Why, if god is competent, is there any ambiguity at all?
Oh, well, I can answer this one from my own POV, anyway. And it's a GOOD question. Please note that this is not "scriptural"...it's what I believe.

I figure God wants each of us to find him/her/it in his (easier to just use one pronoun at a time) own way. I don't think we're supposed to basically read an instruction manual, put tab A into slot B, twist tightly in a clockwise direction and then make it into heaven.

I think we're supposed to really think about it, in context of ourselves and our own lives.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,887 posts, read 17,245,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermister View Post
The debate on God or no God has stricken our generation moreso than any other. Here is my philosophy on the matter:

Say that you are an Atheist...you dont believe in God or you hate God...
When you die, you have a 50% chance of being wrong. No person on this earth would gamble their careers, homes, cars, and other belongings on a 50% chance. Why gamble the future away? Consider this: what if God does exist? what if you are wrong? what if when you die you go to hell? Was it worth being skeptical? If God doesn't exist, then when you die, you will reincarnate or walk the earth as a spirit or whatever you believe. Then you can say you were right. But that 50% chance is still lurking in the back of your mind until you die. Why take that chance? Believe in God, take a chance, and at least if we are all wrong you wont have anything to lose when you die.
Your false premise is that I have a 50% chance of there being a god. I disagree. When I wake up and look outside, it's not a 50% chance of it being sunny or raining. There are factors that may lead to a higher or lower chance of rain. Same is true for a god.

To me, there is a small chance that some kind of god may exist, but a much larger preponderance of the evidence is that no such thing exists.

Now...we could also debate the other false premise that says that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus Christ is automatically going to suffer some punishment in a place called "Hell" and will suffer for eternity. To me, even if some god does exist, I don't think it's in the fundamentalist Christian sense, and I don't believe that people who lead ethical lives will be punished just because they don't accept some dogmatic view of religion.

To me, your question highlights everything bad about religion. It enslaves weak minds with this concept of hell and the punishment for not conforming to the superstition.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,127,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Only those in tune with the Spirit of God have a true understanding of God's Word. Some are blinded by worldly ideas.
And it is your opinion that god is not able to account for that?
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Old 05-05-2010, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,887 posts, read 17,245,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Only those in tune with the Spirit of God have a true understanding of God's Word. Some are blinded by worldly ideas.
LOL...what you call "worldly ideas" I call intelligence. We're not blinded but rather have our eyes open. Those who accept blindly are truly blind, in my humble atheistic opinion.
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Old 05-05-2010, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,127,717 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
I figure God wants each of us to find him/her/it in his (easier to just use one pronoun at a time) own way. I don't think we're supposed to basically read an instruction manual, put tab A into slot B, twist tightly in a clockwise direction and then make it into heaven.

I think we're supposed to really think about it, in context of ourselves and our own lives.
Ahhhh, but you are (along with jimmie before you) addressing a different question altogether. I am not asking about the fidelity with which individuals follow the rules. Jimmie has expounded on the weakness of flesh ad nauseam.

I am speaking of the competence of god in communicating what the actual rules are. If the stakes are as high as eternal salvation and damnation, does not a god of the supposed character of the Abrahamic one have an obligation to make it a fair test?
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,485 posts, read 12,884,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
And it is your opinion that god is not able to account for that?
Love is not love if it is forced.
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