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Whenever I mention the fact that I'm an atheist to other christians, why do they always ask the following question: "Well, how can you believe the universe sprang from nothing?"
Hold up! First of all, the issue of how the universe began has nothing to do with my non-belief in god. I don't believe in any god simply because I have no evidence/proof of "his" existence, no personal experience-nothing! How the universe began is a separate issue altogether. I have no idea how the universe began! None of us really "knows" how the universe came to be- if it was created by gods, alien forces, space monkeys, or has always existed eternally.
Just because you don't have an answer for something does not necessarily mean that god did it. Why do so many of you need to have a god-of-the-gaps explanation for everything? Do you still think sickness is caused by evil spirits? Do you think volcanoes erupt due to the volcano god getting angry?
Anyway, if I claimed that aliens from another galaxy created our universe, wouldn't you expect for me to first provide proof that these aliens even existed before you would even consider them as a possibility for having created the universe? The same thing goes for gods. First, prove that your god exists before you make the claim that he did ANYTHING, much less create the universe!
The origin of universe is a science matter; it's not a religious matter.
The only reason religion wants to have something to say about it is to credit the human existence to their God, so they can say "my God did you, now drop your pants and bend over and pray." (religious rapist's logic)
Could somebody explain the Deism as the good thing for knowing that illusory dream of God's creating; from whence, from the future perhaps, but the existence of God was my right to refuse Him as much as Accept Him. God according Voltaire hinders the revolution. makes me hot...
I don't mean this funny. I mean this despotic for the concept of communicating freely.
Could somebody explain the Deism as the good thing for knowing that illusory dream of God's creating; from whence, from the future perhaps, but the existence of God was my right to refuse Him as much as Accept Him. God according Voltaire hinders the revolution. makes me hot...
I don't mean this funny. I mean this despotic for the concept of communicating freely.
I'm a Deist, or at least thats the definition that best describes my personal beliefs.
I believe in a creator. I don't see the Universe being created, as a random event. I see intelligence behind it, but I also see that if something was so powerful as to create the Universe, it would care little about the daily goings on of it, and would likely know all things before they happened.
Its like a scientist conducting an experiment. He likely knows the results, long before they happen, and the one single chemical exchange that takes place during the experiment, has no idea, and couldn't possibly comprehend the next possible reaction, or how they relate to it.
When looking at the Universe, imagine yourself as a cell in your own body. You understand whats going on around you, and you might see that you are a small part of something larger, but you have no idea what that larger thing is.
This is how I see the Universe.
How it began, is very important. We can't rule out a creator, anymore than an accidental event.
But, just because we rule can't rule anything out, doesn't mean we should look down on anyone elses opinion of how it started. They are all valid, to some extent, and should all be taken seriously.
An Atheists view of how the Universe began, is equal to a Christians view of how the Universe began. Until one can prove their opinion, they are both viable hypothesis.
I don't understand how Deism could be compatable with Evolution. It being, undecided to that instead timeless creator, must have been conceived for justice for the living irrelevant to the deads Humans perform. Deism must have justice for the expentant temporal passage for re-written development.
I see. In a way you know that already. But violence also needed a Godly explanation; injusrice needed a Godly explanation, and the Devil was or wasn't involved.
I don't understand how Deism could be compatable with Evolution. It being, undecided to that instead timeless creator, must have been conceived for justice for the living irrelevant to the deads Humans perform. Deism must have justice for the expentant temporal passage for re-written development.
I see. In a way you know that already. But violence also needed a Godly explanation; injusrice needed a Godly explanation, and the Devil was or wasn't involved.
Deist believe that a creator created the Universe, and everything within it. That doesn't mean that the "creator" knew everything that was going to happen after, but many things, sure.
Did it know which shirt I was going to wear this morning? Did it care if it did know? These are unanswerable questions.
My belief, a "creator" whatever it was, created the Universe, and that was it. Everything from that point on was a crap shoot. It may know how things will end, if they ever do. It understands the physical laws that govern our Universe, but thats it.
Now, is the "creator" a all powerful God, or a alien species that understands the laws of physics, and can create matter at will, or is it a purple unicorn that pooped us out? No one knows, and your guess is as good as mine.
I'm a Deist, or at least thats the definition that best describes my personal beliefs.
I believe in a creator. I don't see the Universe being created, as a random event. I see intelligence behind it, but I also see that if something was so powerful as to create the Universe, it would care little about the daily goings on of it, and would likely know all things before they happened.
You "see" these things, or you hope for them? How can you "see" evidence that's not there?
Its like a scientist conducting an experiment. He likely knows the results, long before they happen, and the one single chemical exchange that takes place during the experiment, has no idea, and couldn't possibly comprehend the next possible reaction, or how they relate to it.
Well, hardly. In science, we simply investigate hypotheses, and are more than willing, by design, to accept the null hypothesis, that our original idea was, in fact, wrong. Through this repeatable process, we eventually get down to some of the nubbin's of the actual truth. Then, when the predominance of evidence is assembled, to a repeatable, reliable point, we label it a theory. Not as in: "unlikely" or "a guess", but rather, a well-supported conclusion.
When looking at the Universe, imagine yourself as a cell in your own body. You understand whats going on around you, and you might see that you are a small part of something larger, but you have no idea what that larger thing is.
This is how I see the Universe.
Better observation. I agree.
How it began, is very important. We can't rule out a creator, anymore than an accidental event.
And yet the preponderance of accumulated modern evidence does tend to fly in the face of the ancient, illiterate statements about it all, doesn't it? When we see lots of that, and then we find that our predictions for various other concepts prove up, what are we then to conclude? That nonetheless, the Godly idea has equal merit? I think not.
But, just because we rule can't rule anything out, doesn't mean we should look down on anyone elses opinion of how it started. They are all valid, to some extent, and should all be taken seriously.
An Atheists view of how the Universe began, is equal to a Christians view of how the Universe began. Until one can prove their opinion, they are both viable hypothesis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
Deist believe that a creator created the Universe, and everything within it. That doesn't mean that the "creator" knew everything that was going to happen after, but many things, sure.
Did it know which shirt I was going to wear this morning? Did it care if it did know? These are unanswerable questions.
My belief, a "creator" whatever it was, created the Universe, and that was it. Everything from that point on was a crap shoot. It may know how things will end, if they ever do. It understands the physical laws that govern our Universe, but that's it.
Now, is the "creator" a all powerful God, or a alien species that understands the laws of physics, and can create matter at will, or is it a purple unicorn that pooped us out? No one knows, and your guess is as good as mine.
Exactly, and well stated. Reps to you! However, do not forget the recent evidence (proofs, actually) for Evolution, and for the self-starting life created by the C. J. Ventner Research Institute. This seems to obviate the need for a godly intervention, does it not?
Exactly, and well stated. Reps to you! However, do not forget the recent evidence (proofs, actually) for Evolution, and for the self-starting life created by the C. J. Ventner Research Institute. This seems to obviate the need for a godly intervention, does it not?
I don't know what "God" is, and the evidence I have, is mine, and I don't force it on anyone else. I was simply stating my beliefs, so that some could understand the Deist point of view.
And, as the C.J. cell proves, life doesn't have to be created by a "God".
If creation of life at this point makes you God, then those men and women are now Gods.
I don't pray to the "creator". If someone feels the need to pray to someone that created life, I suggest they get the names of those who created the cells you're talking about, and pray to them.
They'll likely get a better response than praying to their concept of God.
This is an interesting question: "Is the origin of universe relevant?"
In the context you're asking the question (for the basis of proving/disproving God), then I agree that it's not very relevant. The existance of the universe is in no way proof of God on it's own.
On a different level:
It's one of those things that you just "want to know" though isn't it? It saddens me to know that we will (most likely) not figure it out in our lifetimes.
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