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Do you think old Noah was an EEOC employer? What sort of mediation do you think he had for grievances? And what do you think his going rate for the builders were?
In the other Flood stories of Mesopotamia (the ones which helped inspire the Biblical account) "Noah" outright lied to his "employees" and told them he was building a boat because the town's god was angry at him and he had to leave town quick! He also told them he could have his stuff when he left - his house, land, etc..
What a good boss.
Interestingly, in some of the other accounts "Noah" is genuinely sickened at the prospect of so many people perishing from the wrath of the gods (even to the point of physical sickness). In the Biblical Account his personal feelings on the subject are left out - no matter how the author justified the Flood as a just punishment of a Just God on a wicked and unjust earth. One thinks of Abraham's long conversation with God when the latter intended to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah: Abraham was horrified at the thought that God would destroy the innocent along with the guilty in the town, and attempted to talk God out of it. Not Noah. He doesn't even say a word and builds his boat and then waits for the entire world to die. Perhaps that explains his later proclivity for drinking too much wine?
In the other Flood stories of Mesopotamia (the ones which helped inspire the Biblical account) "Noah" outright lied to his "employees" and told them he was building a boat because the town's god was angry at him and he had to leave town quick! He also told them he could have his stuff when he left - his house, land, etc..
What a good boss.
Interestingly, in some of the other accounts "Noah" is genuinely sickened at the prospect of so many people perishing from the wrath of the gods (even to the point of physical sickness). In the Biblical Account his personal feelings on the subject are left out - no matter how the author justified the Flood as a just punishment of a Just God on a wicked and unjust earth. One thinks of Abraham's long conversation with God when the latter intended to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah: Abraham was horrified at the thought that God would destroy the innocent along with the guilty in the town, and attempted to talk God out of it. Not Noah. He doesn't even say a word and builds his boat and then waits for the entire world to die. Perhaps that explains his later proclivity for drinking too much wine?
Well according to eusebius he was quite busy freeze drying his food
Well according to eusebius he was quite busy freeze drying his food
That's correct.
Also, the Bible doesn't say he employed anyone to help him build the ark. If he used his sons he may have broken some child labor laws if they had them back then. Otherwise, no problem.
Also, the Bible doesn't say he employed anyone to help him build the ark. If he used his sons he may have broken some child labor laws if they had them back then. Otherwise, no problem.
Now Now eusebius the lack of biblical correlation has not stopped you before from bringing up factoids about noahs magical mystery tour.
Noach did not "merit" to be the progenitor of the Jewish nation, due to his personal shortcomings. One of his kids was wicked. One was kind of parve. The other mostly good. Hashem basically skipped Noach in line to make Avraham the father of the Jewish people.
I believe Noach and his boys did most or all of the building of the teva (ark). Correct, the written Torah does not comment. You all would have to check the midrashim and gamara to see if there is more info (of which I suspect there is).
Noach did not "merit" to be the progenitor of the Jewish nation, due to his personal shortcomings. One of his kids was wicked. One was kind of parve. The other mostly good. Hashem basically skipped Noach in line to make Avraham the father of the Jewish people.
I believe Noach and his boys did most or all of the building of the teva (ark). Correct, the written Torah does not comment. You all would have to check the midrashim and gamara to see if there is more info (of which I suspect there is).
It seems to me that Noah was never intended to be the founder of the "Jewish nation" so it's hard to condemn him for not "meriting" such an honor. The reduction of focus of God within humanity gradually reduced from all of humanity (Genesis 1-8) to Noah's descendants (Genesis 9-11) and finally to Abraham and his family. It's almost as if God begins by focusing on everyone, but through the increasing wickedness he finally resorts to focusing on one small group out of the entire human race. This is the written Torah; Jewish Tradition, of course, will insist that the Jews had always been predestined to be God's special people, but this is later post-written Torah at work. The written Torah has a much more interesting turn of events, though, in my opinion in detailing God's relationship with his Creation. Halting steps and experiments on God's part, an entire recreation of humanity to see how that turns out (the Flood) until he finally gives up on trying to make it all work out and decides to deal with just Abraham's line. Thus - the special focus on Israel. Jewish Tradition is fond of predating everything back into the mists of eternity (why, God himself studies Torah and used it to help guide him in the Creation - according to some Jewish traditions). As interesting as that is, it tends to detract from the actual written Torah's account of events, in my opinion.
And you're correct - there are plenty of stories of Noah outside of the written Torah (though some get a bit too fanciful for me - especially the whole "Giant sitting on top of the Ark to survive the Flood one"...).
In relation to my comments in the previous post concerning Noah's silence - I am not the only one who noticed this, witness the traditions of Noah's preaching:
To him God Himself spoke as follows from heaven:
"Noah, embolden yourself, and proclaim repentance
to all the peoples, so that all may be saved.
But if they do not heed, since they have a shameless spirit,
I will destroy the entire race with great floods of water..."
[Then Noah] entreated the peoples and began to speak such words:
"Men, sated with faithlessness, smitten with great,
what you did will not escape the notice of God."
(Sibylline Oracles 1:127-131, 149-151)
and
But Noah, displeased with the deed [of his contemporaries] and finding their intentions to be odious, sought to persuade them to [adopt] a better way of thinking and to change their ways.
(Josephus, Jewish Antiquities 1:73; the above both quoted from Kugel: Traditions of the Bible - A Guide to the Bible as it Was at the Start of the Common Era)
2nd Peter 2:5 and 1st Peter 3:19-20 allude to Noah's righteousness, with the first reference calling him a "herald of righteousness".
But - again, these are all long after the actual written Torah and seem to be attempts at cleaning up Noah's character to remove that troubling "silence" and quick aquiescence to God's Will. Interesting stuff... What think you, Flipflip, of Noah's "silence" in comparison to Abraham's willingness to haggle with God for the lives in Sodom?
Quite funny when you actually think about it, eh, Eusebius
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlueSky_
It also doesn't say anything about freeze drying eucalyptus leaves or any of the other absurd Moderator cut: inappropriate language you've pulled out of your arse to prop up your Bible's plagiarized fllood myth.
Now now, MrBlueSky. Calm thyself! We've recently re-established that Eusebius has indeed got a whopper of a sense of humor, and nothing he says should EVER be taken seriously as regards Noah's Ark. Right Big E?
After all, no person in their right and sensible mind would ACTUALLY conclude that Noah had a freeze-drying facility...
NOTE: Typical food dehydration plant for large volumes (such as an 18 mo minimum oceanic voyage with 4 or 5 million animals and plants on board would require...). What a wild sense of humor, Big E. You really had me going for a while there last fall, but now I get'cha! T'were all a Big Joke!
...sufficient enough to provide for a herd of about 50 T-Rexs minimum, and equal numbers of Brontosauri, Apatosaurs, Velociraptors, and all the 3000+ rest of the 3000+ known dinos (not to mention those we haven't yet discoverd and ID'd! Yikes! That's a lot!) , plus the more than 3+ million different species of unique earthly plants and animals, all absolutely requiring their own unique ecological niches {humidity, fresh or saline water, the right temp and photoperiod regimes, and in sufficient numbers (usually at least a few thousand of each, times two for the necessary male & female versions...). Quite the happy party crowd, huh? Glad you wren't really serious, Eusebius, since obviously, this is a totally and technically unsupportable, insane and ridiculous idea. Isn't It.
Not to mention a population size of them sufficient to least suggest a spitting-apes chance of reproductive success EVEN IF they were disembarked on the absolutely correct and un-hassled ecological conditions. Not up on the frozen lifeless steppes of Ararat (13,000+ feet. I'll grant that this was quite a funny and elaborate joke, Eusebius, to be sure!)
And so on and so forth, "to infinity & beyond"..} Many of the dinos, after all, ate FRESH meat, not dehydrated broccoli flowerettes. ("Those damned flowerettes AGAIN? I protest, and am going to go eat Noah!")
[cue audience applause and laughter!]
And as well, dehydrated food requires mega-volumes of fresh (i.e.: non-saline) H2O, of which there would not have been any on board. You can't use that saline stuff from over the side, esp. since it was rapidly and totally contaminated with all the rot from the entire now-dead planetary biomass: all the fresh water and marine species of plants and animals all dead (bloated whale carcasses drifting by that unsteerable barge, all of them leaking oozy-white rank-smelling fluids.. Yup: quite appetizing!), plus all the fludded-out plant and animal life that once lived in dry land niches. All drowned and rotting, leaving a rather stinking scum on the surface of "The Big God Pond"...
What a joke, huh? Quite Phunny when you think about it, huh, Eusebius!
This one is closed guys..attacks/insults on other posters are not allowed..
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Quite funny when you actually think about it, eh, Eusebius
Quite Phunny when you think about it, huh, Eusebius!