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I can relate to being LL and tenant. I rented 2 of my homes to my adult kids. I guess that was a bad idea. I sold both of those homes, after having to evict my own kids.
As a renter, I tried to make sure I had a great LL/tenant relationship. Paid rent on time or before it was due. Keep landscape mowed/cleared etc..reports issues and leaks etc in a timely fashion, provided receipts for any costs I needed to request a reimbursement for.
Oh, and mopped my own floors, on hands and knees if necessary.
I am the one that lived there, and I didn't want to live in a nasty home. Always left them in better shape than I found them.
On the appliances, I had found and rented my "dream house". I had even discussed purchasing the property from the LL.
Anyway, I ended up with the new appliances from the 2 story house I sold. So I informed the LL I was bringing in my w/d, and fridge, and what would he prefer I do with his. He had me load them up and take them down the road to one of his other rentals.
People these days are just amazing at what they won't do, or refuse to even learn how to do. No common sense to be had.
Just because they rent a place doesn't mean they shouldn't keep it clean and take care of it.
Apartments are less likely to have built-in microwaves, dishwashers & garbage disposals, which are all maintenance nightmares. I'd have to disagree about tenants "paying enough in rent" to cover appliances, unless we're talking beat-up Craigslist specials. The washers, microwaves, fridges & dishwashers on the market today are unlikely to last even five years.
i can make the roof leak-free for thirty years, but I can't guarantee the fridge I install today will even work tomorrow. Why would any sane landlord provide devices that are *guaranteed* to generate service calls?
Because it all happens to just be part of renting in my area. Just because appliances do not last as long as they used to does not mean that they shouldn't be supplied. Just like the cost of everything else that has gone up we surely wouldn't stop doing replacement and repairs because of it. But, as far as appliances, I am talking about the basic appliances; refrigerator, stove and dishwasher if it is a built-in. And the majority even have garbage disposals. And most certainly in large apt complexes but even the majority of 2-4 units all supply appliances. Microwaves are portable enough so we do not supply them.
Even in our 4 unit buildings I just happen to know that we would not be able to compete if we didn't supply appliances plus, we even have a laundry room in each unit and supply washer/dryers. Appliances are a deal breaker in my area. We surely do not want, nor do we expect, tenants to be carting large appliances in and out of apartments whenever they move in or out. Nor, does any tenant want to have to deal with doing that. There are very few, if any, tenants who want to purchase their own appliances and haul them in and then remove them once they vacate especially if they don't have any idea if they will be staying longer than a year. Plus, we would prefer to have the control of knowing what appliances are in the units so we have an idea of how old they are and whether they are in good, safe working condition.
We always purchase new appliances when needed and we replace them if they can no longer be repaired. We also go through a very thorough explanation of the appliances once a tenant moves in and we also leave all of the user manuals. We also do inspections once every 6 months on every unit to stay on top of things and try to spot any problems including how well things are being maintained as well as cleaning.
Again, providing appliances is part of what they are paying rent for, in my area anyway. We have no problem whatsoever making it work for us and we are by no means in the hole or completely inconvenienced because of it. It is just part of the overall rental business in my area.
It may not be what works for other areas, which is indicative with some of the other posters, however, it is what works for 'us' and what also keeps us competitive in my area. It is a win-win for tenants and landlords in my area so we will continue to supply appliances. And they can't put apartment buildings up fast enough around here to meet the demand and all new complexes are still continuing to supply appliances as well.
Last edited by Corn-fused; 02-10-2016 at 05:08 AM..
You covered a key point... it is expected and provided in your service area... so it would seem necessary to be competitive.
Totally the opposite here in the SF Bay Area... rental market is extremely tight... a simple Craigslist ad for a Saturday morning showing of a two bedroom unit will require 50 applications... that is the reality here.
This unit happened to have a drop in range and it is less than a year old... no washer/dryer, refrigerator, dishwasher or garbage disposal... the prospective applicants could not have cared less with a rent of $1500.
For those with truly no options there are several rent to own outlets... maybe because so many rent appliances?
There are also low cost options and I have one single family home with the same refrigerator now on it's 4th tenant... previous had sold it for $50 and the last one simply gave it to the new tenants.
Not furnishing is not the same as going without.
Again... I can understand in a market where every edge or incentive is needed just to entice qualified renters... thankfully, it has not been this way for many years.
On a side note... when I stopped supplying them... HUD allowance was $2 per month per stove and/or refrigerator... for $24 or $48 annually I would pay my tenant just not to have the responsibility.
You covered a key point... it is expected and provided in your service area... so it would seem necessary to be competitive.
Just for clarification, the above is true in my area however...
Totally the opposite here in the SF Bay Area... rental market is extremely tight... a simple Craigslist ad for a Saturday morning showing of a two bedroom unit will require 50 applications... that is the reality here.
..this part above is not true for my area. The market is also tight in my area. We are inundated with responses as soon as we put an apt ad up as well.
So, it obviously doesn't have to do as much with whether a market is tight or not as much as it has to do with what the norm is for an area. (I stated in my last post that the market is tight here as well and they can't build apartment buildings fast enough to meet the demand around here yet they are still furnishing all appliances in the new complexes.)
We, and obviously other areas throughout the U.S., look at what a rental is, and is defined as, differently than CA does whether there is a high demand or not.
No biggie. It is just one of the unique differences which can be clearly found from coast-to-coast.
If demand is that tight and units are being rented as they come on the market, wouldn't it seem a good time to segway out of the appliances business? Never know unless you give it a try...
Just to be clear... it is only freestanding appliances I no longer furnish... I still have plenty of built-ins to deal with...
There was a time when rents actually fell and managers were offering move in specials and one of the offerings were all new above builder grade appliances... two units being equal... the one with the new premium appliances would go first.
Still remember one of the first buildings I managed... all appliances were included and the refrigerators were an aqua color and built like tanks... at least twice as heavy as today's models.
I had a tenant that hated the color and said she was going to move if I did not put in a new Almond color refrigerator and stove... told her I can't replace working appliances just because someone doesn't like the color...
Well within 6 weeks both appliances died... compressor of the refrigerator and several elements on the stove... she got new appliances and then complained the stove was cheap... it didn't have those big flat cooktop elements and the new refrigerator wasn't silent like the old one...
There were 12 units in that building and all of the aqua appliances in the other units were still there working fine several years later when the building changed hands...
I'm sure the tenant had a hand in this... just couldn't prove it and the owners greatly resented it...
If demand is that tight and units are being rented as they come on the market, wouldn't it seem a good time to segway out of the appliances business? Never know unless you give it a try...
No, and I already covered in post #42 the other reasons why we, and many others in our area, prefer to supply all appliances. And an additional reason that I had not mentioned in my previous post is, that we deal with snow, cold weather and ice here as well so expecting tenants to cart their own appliances in and out of apartment units regularly in extreme weather conditions is not a great idea either.
Just because there is a demand, we don't eliminate appliances or amenities that are required for daily living and then make the tenant supply their own. Appliances are all part of the 'package deal' which is what the majority of renters are looking for or prefer. Instead, we adjust the rents to compensate for the cost/maintenance of said appliances, if needed. Of course, there are a few SFHs or duplex type apts around that don't have appliances if people really want to supply their own and keep the rent cost down however, they are not in the majority by any means.
I've never been to Madison... have friends born and raised there that now live in Oakland... they comment every winter how much they enjoy the SF Bay Area... it's even a Christmas gathering place for the family still living in the Madison area.
It was 75 today with crystal clear blue skies and air dead calm... so you do make an excellent point... few here would or could deal with ice and snow and freezing temperatures...
I've seen cars from Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota and the winters really do take a toll....
If I may... what brands and models of appliances come with your units?
When I buy... it is mostly Magic Chef and Whirlpool overall and 90% of my units have natural gas for cooking and clothes drying...
I honestly don't recall at the moment what the brand of appliances are that the owner purchases or if he actually purchases the same brand every time for every kind of appliance furnished. Our units have been booked up now with no showings for awhile so I honestly don't recall at the moment. I know he has switched brands a few times and it seems to be a constant if he is not happy with a particular brand.
Plus, I am also getting confused because I just got new appliances in my own apt, which is not owned by the same owner that I do the advertising/showings/leasing for, so my brain is stuck at the moment on the brands that I just got which are Frigidaire, Maytag and Whirlpool. I sometimes have access to all the paperwork for his rentals because I do his books for him as well as his records for taxes but he has not dropped them off yet to do his 2015 tax prep where I could see if he is brand loyal or not.
And all of our units are all electric. It is actually very rare that you will find any gas appliances in this area in rentals.
And you are absolutely correct that winters are very harsh on vehicles around here, not to mention on humans as well. We are hitting below zero here this week with even worse wind chill factors.
Last edited by Corn-fused; 02-11-2016 at 12:40 AM..
I've never been to Madison... have friends born and raised there that now live in Oakland... they comment every winter how much they enjoy the SF Bay Area... it's even a Christmas gathering place for the family still living in the Madison area.
It was 75 today with crystal clear blue skies and air dead calm... so you do make an excellent point... few here would or could deal with ice and snow and freezing temperatures...
I've seen cars from Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota and the winters really do take a toll....
If I may... what brands and models of appliances come with your units?
When I buy... it is mostly Magic Chef and Whirlpool overall and 90% of my units have natural gas for cooking and clothes drying...
I buy Maytag washers/dryers, the lowest HE models they sell but can still fit a queen size comforter in them. They have 10 year warranty on their motors and baskets/drums, LG has this too and maybe a couple others, but only 1 year labor and the rest of the normal problems I can fix myself. Machines these days are garbage no matter what you buy though so just go large and cheap I think the last set was $550 for the pair in November, I haven't actually had to use a warranty or replace a machine yet the last set was for a new rental.
Fridges I normally go with a 22 to 25 CU FT side by side with water/ice around $800, again Maytag has 10 year warranties on their products but they aren't the only ones. I haven't had to replace a range or dishwasher yet, it is normal here to buy a home and the only appliances that don't stay are fridge and laundry, but I wouldn't be too worried about who makes those either as long as it has a decent warranty to go with it.
I always go through the same guy at Spencers appliance, I just email him and tell him what I need and he sends me options. You can haggle with these guys which is how I get the prices down, that washer/dryer set I purchased in November I also got a $75 gift card rebate from Maytag that just came in a few weeks back.
I'm in a bit of a different situation though because I do have a maintenance guy on payroll who knows what he is doing, not to say that I don't or can't learn how to fix a problem quickly, so I don't ever have to call for service on appliances. In my market I don't have to provide appliances but I do because it opens up my potential tenant pool more to include young couples who are renting a home for the first time, they don't have to worry about buying a bunch of appliances. Another reason to include appliances in a market that doesn't require them is an increased rent for having them which makes the ROI decent enough to consider it, I easily get tenants placed fast and in my newest rental I actually got a little more in rent than the same home across the street where I got $1200 and theirs is still listed at $1150 and this was back in mid November.
Do you guys ever have tenants that use rent-to-own?
It is very common in my primary area... my second newest tenant did an entire apartment with them... recliners, two bedroom sets, refrigerator, stacking washer/dryer... etc.
Most of the housing stock here is older... very few could accommodate anything larger than 20 cu ft and some of the smaller units are 16 to 17 max...
As mentioned... my last premium fridge with all the bells and whistles was destroyed by my tenants... it took more than 2 years for me to collect on my Judgement... this is the one where they tossed all the icemaker hardware, shelves, bins racks to store more fish in the freezer... a 24 cu ft my Washington property manager insisted I had to furnish even after I said I never do in California... it is also the only appliance where I bought a 5 year full warranty... but the warranty does not cover missing parts.
This home has Jen-Air, Compactor, Microwave, Instant Hot, Garbage Disposal, two furnaces, two water heaters, spa tub, hot tub, wet bar fridge, CCTV, garage door openers, gate opener... etc... just writing all this down leaves me feeling very vulnerable!!!
The ironic part is it takes 6 months rent just to cover the property tax and a 1920 1100 square foot home in East Oakland California brings in the same rent as this 5 bedroom 4800 sq waterfront home in Washington State... Property taxes in Washington State doubled in a couple of years
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