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Old 02-20-2016, 04:44 AM
 
12,016 posts, read 12,750,660 times
Reputation: 13420

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Manager View Post
Talking about a shower not a toilet.



Your landlord potentially has a case for neglect now. You noticed an issue 14 months ago and now there is damage from water leaking outside the shower. Not only that but you apparently let water sit on the bathroom floor so it could seep into the subfloor, it isn't going to soak in immediately wood takes time to soak liquid up.

Should you be charged? Depends on what the situation actually is. Vinyl flooring should also have been caulked in to prevent water from getting in between it and any walls, any chance you can post a picture of the area? Does your landlord have a reasonable neglect claim? Maybe. Really though only a lawyer can answer those questions.
Sounds like the LL had preexisting neglect and damage that he did not take care of. The renter may be liable if they admit that they saw a problem and let it go, but they don't have to admit anything.
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Old 02-20-2016, 11:33 AM
 
7 posts, read 32,517 times
Reputation: 10
Posting pictures as requested. The first is a picture AFTER I removed the weird second baseboard, pulled up the corder of the linoleum and laid it back down. The second is the linoleum pulled back. I don't have pictures of the caulking seal before I pulled it back.
Attached Thumbnails
Should we pay for water damage in bathroom?-img_0081.jpg   Should we pay for water damage in bathroom?-img_0082.jpg  
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Old 02-20-2016, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ area
3,365 posts, read 5,235,146 times
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That is some serious water damage. The vinyl flooring should have been calked in to prevent that. I would be worried about your email admission that you noticed the floor wasn't calked in when you moved in. In order to properly repair that the shower has to come out to replace the subfloor underneath. I would go get a lawyer consult if I were you since the landlord is already showing that he wants to charge you. That damage is easily tens of thousands, an insurance claim is in order here.
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Old 02-20-2016, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,813 posts, read 32,487,749 times
Reputation: 38575
It's obviously not caulked/sealed. That's not your responsibility. You don't have to do an inspection at that level, as if you were a building inspector or contractor who could see into the future about what kind of damage might occur because the landlord had work done that was shoddy, and list everything that might go wrong for him.

What the photo shows is that the landlord did not have the linoleum job done right. If the landlord says you admitted you noticed there was not a seal, say, yep, we noticed you didn't seal it. We also noticed.....the carpets hadn't been replaced in eons, the windows didn't all work perfectly, etc., etc. That doesn't make us responsible for you being a slum lord. And we did notify you as soon as we noticed that your shoddy job was causing damage. That's all you're responsible to do.

Don't bother getting a lawyer unless you have to. I'd feel completely confident taking this to small claims court.

The insurance issue is a good one. Tell the landlord to submit it to his insurance company, but his cutting corners and being bitten in the butt because of it - is his problem, not yours.
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Old 02-20-2016, 02:47 PM
 
7 posts, read 32,517 times
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I did find a before pic (attached). It was caulked all the way across, but there was a small 2" crack in it. Not quite as bad as this:

http://www.angiesroost.com/wp-conten...7/p7150530.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Should we pay for water damage in bathroom?-before-pic.jpeg  
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Old 02-20-2016, 02:49 PM
 
7 posts, read 32,517 times
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I'm also wondering if there was existing dry rot under there and if that's what caused the caulk to crack.
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ area
3,365 posts, read 5,235,146 times
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I wouldn't worry about it. That older picture looks like they tried to cover up the problem by adding another layer of trim and that isn't caulked in either just making the problem worse. Directly outside the shower is considered a wet area so caulking is mandatory. And that is all you have to tell them, keep that picture.

You shouldn't be ripping anything up it isn't yours and you don't know how old the vinyl is or if there was asbestos under it. You are a tenant, don't take it upon yourself to tear things up even if there is a problem, even if the owner allows it if that isn't in writing it is basic cover your ass.

Like I said they have to pull the shower out to repair it right so if you don't have another shower in the place you need to start looking around for another place to live. There could be extensive mold issues from all that moisture too. As for the caulking failure that is normal over time it all depends on how skilled the person who did it is. Most DIYers think you can just run a small line and call it a day but it shrinks when it dries and when it does the small line may crack. Another problem is a wood subfloor has movement and the smaller the line the smaller the movement needed to crack it. Caulking isn't a fool proof thing as it takes knowledge and finesse to do it right and silicone, which is what is used in the shower, is worse. Caulking can also crack if it is constantly soaked and dries out but that is years of that behaviour and I mean soaked it is rare to see it happen. I worked for a countertop/tub/shower company for 5 years and my dad installed and now manages the installers for that company for the last 30 is where my knowledge comes from FWIW.
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Old 02-21-2016, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,146 posts, read 33,513,828 times
Reputation: 35437
Unless you were completely negligent and took showers with the door wide open, the damage was done by the missing rubber flap/seal being broken or missing and the cracked caulking. If you informed the LL but they chose not to do anything that's their problem. If you did it in writing make sure you keep the correspondence.

I never use linoleum in rentals. It's Hardibacker on top of the wood subfloor and tile. And I tell my tenants they are to call about any damage or broken things. No matter who did it, it's going to get fixed. I dnt like our rentals in disrepair. The longer you wait on repairs the more damage is possible later. This repair would probably run less than $150 depending on rates.
I had a shower guy come and reseal my whole shower for $85 so based on that lets say in his area it runs 110 bucks.A tube of caulking runs $7. Handyman $40.
Redoing a shower correctly with subfloor damage n this case the LL can be looking at 5-7k in repairs.

It's amazing how many people think they are saving money by not doing any repairs.

Btw you shouldn't of taken anything apart.
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Old 02-21-2016, 11:35 AM
 
16,376 posts, read 22,477,771 times
Reputation: 14398
Quote:
Originally Posted by redheaddad View Post
I did find a before pic (attached). It was caulked all the way across, but there was a small 2" crack in it. Not quite as bad as this:

http://www.angiesroost.com/wp-conten...7/p7150530.jpg
Do you mean that crack to the right side of the lower trim, below the shower door - the black crack that is is vertical? Or is that a grout line? That's pretty small. It looks like it's mayeb 1/8 - 1/4 inch wide. Do you mean 2" long, top to bottom? When you say 2 inch crack, I expected the space between the crack to be 2" wide.
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