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Yes, health care cost is buried in genral income taxes, both federal and provincial. The numbers are available but I guess most people don't bother to check it out, so we don't really know how much it costs.
I only found out from this thread the costs of some countries (earlier post).
So I have been paying since I started working (income taxes). That's how it's structured in Canada.
I would very much appreciate - when you have the time - finding out what you have paid for your "free" health care - both in terms of provincial and federal taxes, And how they're computed. As we say here in the United States (and elsewhere) - there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
There are many people in the United States who think we can get "money for nothing - and chicks for free" [Dire Straits] - but I don't reckon that's the case anywhere in the world when it comes to health care. Either you're paying costs you can see easily - or costs that are hidden - buried in the taxes you're paying.
I tend to think most people in first world countries are paying about the same amounts for health care (adjusted for the services they're getting). Whether it's plain to them - or hidden in the fine print of tax codes/payments. Robyn
I would very much appreciate - when you have the time - finding out what you have paid for your "free" health care - both in terms of provincial and federal taxes, And how they're computed. As we say here in the United States (and elsewhere) - there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
There are many people in the United States who think we can get "money for nothing - and chicks for free" [Dire Straits] - but I don't reckon that's the case anywhere in the world when it comes to health care. Either you're paying costs you can see easily - or costs that are hidden - buried in the taxes you're paying.
I tend to think most people in first world countries are paying about the same amounts for health care (adjusted for the services they're getting). Whether it's plain to them - or hidden in the fine print of tax codes/payments. Robyn
Except for the fact that health care in the US is "for profit" and in Canada it is not. That's why in the US the costs are so high. The insurance companies do everything they can to make as much profit as they can without regard for the patients. That means cut costs, deny treatment, dump you from the policy if you get too expensive. Health care costs in the US are completely out of control because the insurance companies drive & control everything.
How can it be explained that prescription drugs are so much cheaper in Canada & the rest of the world than they are in the US leading seniors to cross the border to obtain prescriptions that they can't afford in the US?
Yes, health care cost is buried in genral income taxes, both federal and provincial.
... So I have been paying since I started working (income taxes). That's how it's structured in Canada.
I have been told that income taxes were 'high' in Canada.
But really I have no idea what is considered high anymore.
This thread is in a 'retirement' sub-forum, so it can be assumed that we are all talking about pensioners. So lets take a household of two pensioners who make $2,000/month; roughly how much income taxes would they be paying? Or would they pay income taxes?
And then there are people like me. I worked from the time I was 16 until I was 55. I just happened to not work for a big corporation. Bad move. My boss retired. I was out of work. Lost my health insurance. My arthritis was so bad I couldn't continue to work, or find new employment. Finally found a 5k deductible with 5 riders for pre existing conditions. Yes, the US health system is very broke.
I would love to have a "long" wait. Mine is really long LOL, like till 65
Robin, the article you posted is from 2004, and 15,000 elderly dying in France because of a heat wave is more about lack of air conditioning then health care. Furthermore, the article was about the continued rise in health care costs (a fact in every country) and what they felt were the areas that needed to be addressed to keep costs down. They did by the way, acknowledge that France was considered amongst best in Health Care, and I know that as of last year, they were regarded as #1.
Now these are not opinions, but based on facts and numbers, and patient outcome, and studies compiled by the World Health Organization. France is not a perfect system, nor is Canada or the UK, or Taiwan, but if you were to ask its citizens, I doubt you would find one that would be willing to trade places with the US. We have a Canadian on the forum talking about their experience and the experience of his/her relatives and friends in their own county. I think they know what kind of treatment they receive better than we do. I know that Tommy Douglas, who was instrumental in bringing universal health care to Canada has been voted by its citizens as the person who made the greatest contribution to their country.
You may argue with Snowbird that they do not know the actual cost they pay for their universal health care (By Provence) but rest assured, from statistics I have already provided, it doesn't come close to what Americans pay. In terms of which country offers better care, I guess you have to define what "better" is. If it's faster, then the US wins, if its being available, then Canada wins. Statistics tell us we are 37th down the list in patient outcome and life expectancy. Would I trade having to wait 9 months for some elected procedure for the assurance that I would never be left without medical care if I became sick, you bet I would.
Last edited by modhatter; 02-20-2012 at 08:19 PM..
I would very much appreciate - when you have the time - finding out what you have paid for your "free" health care - both in terms of provincial and federal taxes, And how they're computed. As we say here in the United States (and elsewhere) - there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
There are many people in the United States who think we can get "money for nothing - and chicks for free" [Dire Straits] - but I don't reckon that's the case anywhere in the world when it comes to health care. Either you're paying costs you can see easily - or costs that are hidden - buried in the taxes you're paying.
I tend to think most people in first world countries are paying about the same amounts for health care (adjusted for the services they're getting). Whether it's plain to them - or hidden in the fine print of tax codes/payments. Robyn
my buddy lives in canada and he thinks the healthcare is awful.
his mother had cancer ,she never got to see the same doctore 2x and things are more like clinics .the care she got he felt was 2nd rate.
what he pointed out was since they are so close to the border most of the better ,experienced doctors get jobs here and cross the border to the states daily and work here where they can earn alot more.
I have been told that income taxes were 'high' in Canada.
But really I have no idea what is considered high anymore.
This thread is in a 'retirement' sub-forum, so it can be assumed that we are all talking about pensioners. So lets take a household of two pensioners who make $2,000/month; roughly how much income taxes would they be paying? Or would they pay income taxes?
Yes, income taxes in Canada is higher than the US.
One will have to pay income tax for $24,000 income, not much but my guess is a few thousands (definitely not $8000). Frankly I was so lazy to look up the chart but I encountered some websites for lazy people like me, look up province by province, then income level (after all elegible deductions), then the combined taxes to be paid.
Seniors will get a break on income taxes, then reduction in property taxes ... things like that, but as said I was so lazy to ever take a look at how much I paid. In fact, I rarely remember how much I have been paying since I started working b/c I didn't do my own income tax (some one else did it for me over the years).
If you search, there are websites available and I saw it, a breakdown province by province, how much one pays (after all elegible deductions).
Speaking of long term care, no one in Canada is left out, this is the good thing about Canada.
This is how it works ...
Each province sets a standard rate for a 4 person room, and it's guaranteed every Canadians will get the long term care (stroke patients ...). I forgot the standard rate but kind of recall it's around $1400/month or $1600/month (along that line).
For seniors and the disabled (say a stroke patient who can't look after him/herself anymore at age of 40, for argument sake) will get a bed, the cost will be taken out directly from the patients' account. Now, if the monthly income of the patient is not enough to cover $1400 or $1600/month, the province will kick in and pay the difference.
Everything is based on if the patients don't have enough money to cover the costs, and the province will kick in the difference. That's why I said no one is left out or left to die at home or in his/her apartment.
Again, if the patients chose to stay at home, then the CCAC (community care ..., paid by the province) will assess how many hours is needed to send home care workers to look after the patients, 20 hours max/week in Ontario. The home care workers will bath, feed, clean the patients but family members will have to have the food ready, the workers will heat the food for the patients. These patients are normally able to partially look after themselves but need help OR they can't look after themselves anymore (stroke patients or others...) but they have their family members to look after them, however their family members can't do everything (it's just too much for family members to do everything), that's why the province has this programme, administered by the CCAC, to provide home care for those who need.
That's the quality of care in Canada, part of it !
Wait time for bed (4 beds per room): CCAC doesn't have the exact time frame (government workers, you know what I mean), but for first priority (no direct family such as single man/woman, no children) I think it is 3 months to get a bed but CCAC won't guarantee he/she will get his/her first choice in the long term care application, it could be his/her 4th choice ... Some have to wait for a few years if they have to get into their first choice, especially long term care that caters to immigrants and those facilities have care givers who speak the patients' language, ethnic food, ethnic activities, ethnic festivals celebrations ....
So if one's not picky (no spouse, no children), approximately 3 months wait time. But if urgent, MY GUESS is less than 3 months. Say if a patient are ready to be discharged from the hospital, but he/she has NO FAMILY member in Canada, they will get the top top top priority as hospital would like to transfer them to long term care and make room for other new patient.
One of the good things about universal health care in Canada (on top of everything else we discussed or know about) is as follows:
No headache, no stress, no worry at old age, I know I will be looked after instead of worrying about running out of money.
It's like a "government pension on health care", you are guaranteed for life.
Would I want the US style health care ? No !
Would I want to trade my Canadian health care for the US style health care for shorter wait time: No !
Am I willing to give up my Canadian citizenship ? No !
That's why cities in Canada always make the list of quality of living (top the list, 2nd or top 15 worldwide) in the Mercer Report on Quality of Living. US cities never made the list of top 15 or top 20 or even top 50 (I kind of recall).
I saw cities in western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada that always top the list of the Mercer Report of Quality of Living.
Yes, income taxes in Canada is higher than the US.
One will have to pay income tax for $24,000 income, not much but my guess is a few thousands (definitely not $8000). Frankly I was so lazy to look up the chart but I encountered some websites for lazy people like me, look up province by province, then income level (after all elegible deductions), then the combined taxes to be paid.
Seniors will get a break on income taxes, then reduction in property taxes ... things like that, but as said I was so lazy to ever take a look at how much I paid. In fact, I rarely remember how much I have been paying since I started working b/c I didn't do my own income tax (some one else did it for me over the years).
If you search, there are websites available and I saw it, a breakdown province by province, how much one pays (after all elegible deductions).
Yes. I see. So having universal health care costs everyone, including pensioners, more in their taxes.
Thank you.
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