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I will never qualify for homestead as I will never give up my Canadian citizenship
It's the universal health care that Canadians refuse to give up.
Actually - I had a little time this afternoon - and refreshed my memory and got somewhat up to date on the Canadian health care system. First - it isn't correct to speak of the Canadian health care system as "universal". Since it is - in general - run on a province by province basis (subject to some broad federal guidelines).
I read a lot about a big report that came out last week in Canada - the Drummond Report - there are 100's of articles about it. It basically deals with the financial problems of Ontario (Ontario is in somewhat bad shape financially - running significant deficits - as its manufacturing base has declined - OTOH - a resource oriented province like Alberta seems to be in excellent financial shape). Health care is an important part of the problem - since a very substantial % of Ontario expenditures (like 45%) go to health care. Kind of makes our state budget problems with Medicaid look less significant. And the cost of health care spending is going up a lot faster than revenues.
In one of the many articles I read - I noticed striking similarities between the health care problems in Canada - and those here (everything from type 2 diabetes in young children to the increasing cost of caring for an increasing number of elderly who have one or more chronic health care problems - to the really bad health care available to the indigenous "native" Canadian population).
Anyway - one of the hundreds of recommendations in the Drummond report was the abolition of "free" drugs for all seniors - and the implementation of means testing whereby only the poorest of seniors would be subsidized. The proverbial "nose in the camel's tent". So I reckon there will come a day when your health care budget won't be $0 (and it really isn't $0 now - since the Canadian system doesn't cover dental care or a lot of eye care - much like our Medicare system in the United States).
BTW - these health care costs are paid for out of provincial taxes - although the taxes are sometimes called premiums (and supplemented by payments from the national government). Who pays these taxes - and how are they collected? Does everyone pay the same amount - or are they linked to income - family size - etc.? What happens if someone is unemployed or retired - who pays what then?
I also reviewed the case of Chaoulli v. Quebec (Attorney General)[2005] 1 S.C.R. 791, 2005 SCC 35. Had read about it a long time ago but forgotten it. It was:
So all is not necessarily lollipops and roses in the Canadian health care system. Canada - like many first world countries with aging populations - is struggling to come up with ways to grapple with the increasing costs of health care. So far - I haven't seen any such country with a reasonably large population that has managed to come up with a great solution (and even smaller countries like those in Scandinavia are facing increasing problems as their populations cope with increases in immigration - and everyone these days isn't part of one big "extended family").
IOW - if I were 60 and Canadian - I wouldn't count on the status quo continuing until I was 85. I think both the United States and Canada will see major changes in their health care systems in the next few decades. Robyn
Here are the actual numbers. Actually we are closer to 17% of GDP., and 51% higher than the next most expensive country-Norway, 90% higher than Canada and almost 100% higher than France, who's health care is rated #1 in the world.
I came across news about Canadians seeking treatments in the US but I rarely paid attention what conditions they are having ...
Basically when the conditions are not available in Canada either they are not approved (yet) by Health Canada or sometimes it's a new drugs that have been approved by FDA but not Health Canada, mind you that Health Canada might have approved other drugs but the patients think it is not that effective (and they have $$$) so they went to the States for treatments.
Canadians even went to the States for hip surgery because they didn't want to wait ... So it's a matter of choice rather than necessity I think.
Regarding wait time: Please forgive me again as it's sometimes on the news (especially election time) but then I didn't pay much attention.
Here's my recollection re: wait time
- See specialist: From 2 weeks to 6 weeks unless there's some cancellation (meaning you won't be able to see the specialists the next day)
- I don't think hip surgery will need to wait a zillion year, probably a few months (it's considered inconvenient but not an emergency), probably 9 months (don't quote me). So some seniors who have $$$ & top up insurance (I don't know the details) and they just went to the States and have it done.
Which provinces have longer or shorter wait time: Can't remember but it seems to me Ontario is not the worst (I could be wrong), some provinces in the prairies have shorter wait time I think (less population: Manitoba about 1 million people, Sask about 1 million people, Alberta about 2.5 million people).
Illegal immigrants: I think they are treated (emergency), I haven't read the artical in your link yet but will read it later.
The system you describe sounds a little like Israel - where it is legal to go outside the "free" health care system within Israel (I guess you can't go outside the system in Canada because Canada uses the United States as an "escape valve" - it would be hard for Israel to use Egypt as an "escape valve" ). You can get things - like a hip replacement - that would take a year if you got them for "free" in 2 weeks if you pay (and - at least in Israel - the amount you have to pay is ridiculously low compared to the "list price" and even the Medicare costs in the United States).
And I guess you're young enough - and lucky enough - not to have had something "inconvenient". Like an arthritic hip that puts you in a wheel chair. Spending a year in a wheel chair if I needed a hip replacement is far from my idea of a good time.
So why does it take so long to get a hip replacement? Not enough hospitals - not enough doctors - not enough money in the health care system? Or just plain rationing (maybe the old sucker will die waiting for his hip replacement)? Robyn
The system you describe sounds a little like Israel - where it is legal to go outside the "free" health care system within Israel (I guess you can't go outside the system in Canada because Canada uses the United States as an "escape valve" - it would be hard for Israel to use Egypt as an "escape valve" ). You can get things - like a hip replacement - that would take a year if you got them for "free" in 2 weeks if you pay (and - at least in Israel - the amount you have to pay is ridiculously low compared to the "list price" and even the Medicare costs in the United States).
And I guess you're young enough - and lucky enough - not to have had something "inconvenient". Like an arthritic hip that puts you in a wheel chair. Spending a year in a wheel chair if I needed a hip replacement is far from my idea of a good time.
So why does it take so long to get a hip replacement? Not enough hospitals - not enough doctors - not enough money in the health care system? Or just plain rationing (maybe the old sucker will die waiting for his hip replacement)? Robyn
Hip replacements wear out at a very predictable rate. In a smoothly functioning system it is not unusual to be put on the list for another replacement immediatly after you've had the current one put in. Many years in advance. A chaotic system will wait untill you're in distress from a worn-out joint before putting you on a list. Which looks like a much shorter list, because you were put on it after you started needing treatment.
Of course it is quite possible to shatter a hip unexpectedly, but trauma cases like that rarely have to wait longer than it takes to actually costruct the joint.
All UHC systems include large private components. Often publically funded treatments are administered by private facilities.
Here are the actual numbers. Actually we are closer to 17% of GDP., and 51% higher than the next most expensive country-Norway, 90% higher than Canada and almost 100% higher than France, who's health care is rated #1 in the world.
Money comes from the federal government that transfers the funds to each province every year, and each province and territories will HAVE TO follow the Canada Health Act (no preferences given to the rich, everybody is treated the same, no queue jumping ... I like it).
Of course the federal government collects our taxes, and transfer part of it to each province, and Ontario has some kind of health care tax each year.
So tax payers paid for it but because of how our health care system is structured, it costs less based on the following reasons (not limited to):
- Non profit hospitals: Saves lots of $ compared to private hospital in the US.
- Doctors get paid 50% less than American doctors: Say the province pays the doctor for each patient visit, then cap the doctor's income to $400,000 (along that line) and will pay the doctors 1/3 (cap) on income over $400,000 (American doctor gets paid $1,000,000 ... That's why it's so expensive in the US).
- Less red tape: Less private insurance companies as in the US.
- Hospitals follow guidelines from the authorities: No unnecessary procedures to be performed. Well doctors in the US perform way too many procedures as soon as they realize we are Canadians who have top up insurance (milk the cow procedures, the way I see it).
- Other reasons ...
You will have to excuse me - but I don't think what you're saying is correct:
...Funding for the insurance plans comes from the general revenues of the Canadian provinces/territories, assisted by transfer payments from the federal government through the Canada Health Transfer.
IOW - the funding for your plan will depend in part on how well your province is doing financially. So how much do you - or have you paid to the Province of Ontario for your health care? Are you paying anything now? Or is it so buried in your general provincial taxes that you don't even know what it is? I think when it comes to people in the United States - we all know what we're paying for Medicare (both before and after we go on Medicare). And many people are becoming increasingly aware of what their employer based insurance is costing them (I have private non-employer insurance - so I know exactly what I'm paying).
One reason I'm curious about this is because if provincial tax payments for health care are buried in general provincial tax revenues - not broken out to an extent that you as a taxpayer even know how much you're paying - then how much Canada spends on health care may be reported very incorrectly.
As for no queue jumping - or coming to the United States for health care - I want to see how you feel when you're put on a 10 month or longer waiting list for something (whether it is simply "inconvenient" - or in the opinion of you/your doctors - perhaps life threatening) - or told you can't get it at all. You have 3 homes - so - although you may not be rich - you're certainly not poor either. I would like to see how you deal with it. Robyn
P.S. One thing most people in the US would find ridiculous in Ontario is you support 4 - yes 4 separate school systems. English (Catholic and non-Catholic) - and French (Catholic and non-Catholic). The Drummond report had some interesting things to say about that!
The system you describe sounds a little like Israel - where it is legal to go outside the "free" health care system within Israel (I guess you can't go outside the system in Canada because Canada uses the United States as an "escape valve" - it would be hard for Israel to use Egypt as an "escape valve" ). You can get things - like a hip replacement - that would take a year if you got them for "free" in 2 weeks if you pay (and - at least in Israel - the amount you have to pay is ridiculously low compared to the "list price" and even the Medicare costs in the United States).
And I guess you're young enough - and lucky enough - not to have had something "inconvenient". Like an arthritic hip that puts you in a wheel chair. Spending a year in a wheel chair if I needed a hip replacement is far from my idea of a good time.
So why does it take so long to get a hip replacement? Not enough hospitals - not enough doctors - not enough money in the health care system? Or just plain rationing (maybe the old sucker will die waiting for his hip replacement)? Robyn
I don't know why hip replacement will have to wait or not have to wait, but I know those who need dialyses don't have to wait. The doctors will tell their patients just go straight to ER after reviewing the last blood test in the clinics.
Then in the hospitals, after going through all the blood work, procedures, the patient and family are briefed by 2 doctors (one being internal medicine, the other I don't remember), then the patients are advised they have 2 options, hemo or peritoneal dialyses, pros and cons, and the patient/family decides which route to go.
No I don't need hip replacement yet, fortunately But I think stroke might strike me first ...
Yes, health care cost is buried in genral income taxes, both federal and provincial. The numbers are available but I guess most people don't bother to check it out, so we don't really know how much it costs.
I only found out from this thread the costs of some countries (earlier post).
So I have been paying since I started working (income taxes). That's how it's structured in Canada.
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). You can get things - like a hip replacement - that would take a year if you got them for "free" in 2 weeks if you pay (and - at least in Israel - the amount you have to pay is ridiculously low compared to the "list price" and even the Medicare costs in the United States).
