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Old 02-05-2015, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,335 posts, read 7,913,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
I'm far more concerned about my tax dollars paying for useless young adults or even micro-preemies than I am about our seniors -- most of whom PAID IN TO THE SYSTEM ALL THEIR LIVES -- getting a little help at the end of their lives (and not just help to end their lives)...
But if their lives are ending, there's no help to give apart from pain management and decent nursing care. "Heroic" interventions are both futile and a complete waste of money in that situation. That's the entire point.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:43 PM
 
28,803 posts, read 47,556,566 times
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My sister-in-law is at one of her daughters homes on her death bed. There is a full vial of morphine in the fridge and they are giving her enough to keep her "comfortable". She's told them she's ready to go.

I expected a call today that didn't come.

The passing of a generation.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:29 AM
 
21,669 posts, read 12,711,507 times
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With the proper drugs, there is no need for "pain and misery" and, if that's the rationale, perhaps we'd all better knock ourselves off at age 60 (like in "Soylent Green") because, you know, that's when the knees and teeth and libido start to go... That stuff is expensive, and we don't want any suffering here!

I believe we have an immortal spirit -- not just a body -- and life has worth even when it's not perfect.

For that matter, let's set limits on the handicapped of all ages; aren't they also costly hopeless cases?

We keep saying we'll never go down that path again (you know), yet we keep blithely going down it...
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,335 posts, read 7,913,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
For that matter, let's set limits on the handicapped of all ages; aren't they also costly hopeless cases?
No, most handicapped people are not terminally ill.

Quote:
We keep saying we'll never go down that path again (you know), yet we keep blithely going down it...
Acknowledging the reality of death and the futility of continuing aggressive treatments on someone who will achieve no benefit from them ( and who may be actively harmed by them) is nothing like what the Nazis did.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:14 AM
 
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We're all terminally ill, friend.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:39 AM
 
Location: UP of Michigan
1,767 posts, read 2,393,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
We're all terminally ill, friend.
Isn't this an argument for living life to the fullest while possible and recognising the inevitable? A discussion of the options should not hurt anyone's sensibilities.
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,335 posts, read 7,913,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
We're all terminally ill, friend.
No, we are not all terminally ill. But yes, we are all going to die some day. The sooner we honestly acknowledge that fact, the more likely we'll be to accept the reality that our end is close rather than far off when our bodies do finally begin to fail in earnest, and the more likely it is we'll die the death we actually want (which for most people means being home with loved ones rather than in a hospital hooked up to monitors and tubes).
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:16 AM
 
11,181 posts, read 10,489,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
I believe we have an immortal spirit -- not just a body -- and life has worth even when it's not perfect.
That we each have our own beliefs about life and death and spirit is IMO the strongest argument in favor of being fully informed about our condition, when our bodies start to fail us.

I believe I am eternal spirit and my body is merely a temporary "vehicle" or "carrier". It's served me well for 67 years but will eventually stop altogether, and I don't intend to pursue expensive and invasive treatment to try to delay the inevitable. My life won't end when my body processes stop.
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:17 AM
 
21,669 posts, read 12,711,507 times
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I don't either -- in fact, I'm ready to go anytime -- but I do SEE the danger of coercion for those who, for whatever their personal reasons, would like to hang around a bit longer... We should all have the freedom to choose to die (within reason, according to our religious beliefs), but we should also retain the freedom to choose to live, even if others don't quite see the point or want to be bothered with us.

Otherwise...

Last edited by otterhere; 02-06-2015 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 02-06-2015, 12:43 PM
 
15,442 posts, read 21,270,642 times
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As long as the hospital and doctors give me the option where to spend that 30 days, I have no problem with doctors knowing what I will probably already know by that point.

Death neither makes me angry or fearful. Millions of people have successfully died before me. In fact, my grandpa died peacefully in his sleep. It was the four passengers in the car who died screaming.
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