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You keep ignoring key elements of my posts and trying to put words in my mouth. I never said the commercial stretch of Elmwood Ave. "doesn't serve Elmwood or the Historic District." I said that it (along with Broad) is on the edge of the neighborhood and both corridors serve multiple neighborhoods, the least populous of which is the Elmwood Historic District. In short, the Historic District is a fraction of the potential retail base along that corridor. That is a far cry from a street like Ives which is squarely in the middle of a Fox Point neighborhood which has been gentrifying longer and is located within the larger East Side which has a much more affluent population.
South Providence, the West End, and Elmwood outside of the Historic Districts have much more influence over the businesses established on Elmwood Ave. and Broad because there are simply far more people living in those neighborhoods than within the relatively small (and largely single family) Historic Districts. So the bolded part of your post is absolutely true, but it's more a testament to the demographics of the surrounding areas of South Providence, West End, and non-historic Elmwood than it is some indication of a failed nefarious plot to lure unsuspecting buyers to the Elmwood Historic Districts.
And you keep ignoring the fact that Westminster St. somehow supports desirable businesses despite bordering the rougher West End (including housing projects), and that Federal Hill already has own business districts entirely within the neighborhood like Atwells Ave, Broadway and Luongo Square.
While it's true that the Elmwood Historic District is a somewhat small portion of the population that the Broad St. and Elmwood Ave. commercial districts serve, if it's 20% then theoretically 20% of the businesses there should cater to the the gentrifying crowd (that "supposedly" inhabits the historic districts). Taco Bell is literally the most upscale business on Broad St.!
(edit to add) And FYI, Elmwood "is" South Providence, just as much as Upper South Providence or Lower South Providence is.
Last edited by massnative71; 03-28-2023 at 11:24 PM..
You know, the only ones who ever brought up gentrification is MassNative and Redplum. They think it's a good thing. No one else ever said Elmwood was gentrified; they said the historic districts were the nicest parts of Elmwood and you can get a nice house for the money. People buy houses because they want to live there, not because of some get rich quick scheme. And those are the people you accuse of not being a "real" community.
You know, the only ones who ever brought up gentrification is MassNative and Redplum. They think it's a good thing. No one else ever said Elmwood was gentrified; they said the historic districts were the nicest parts of Elmwood and you can get a nice house for the money. People buy houses because they want to live there, not because of some get rich quick scheme. And those are the people you accuse of not being a "real" community.
By the commonly understood definition of neighborhood gentrification*, the historic districts of Elmwood were in fact gentrified. There are homeowners on those streets who have household incomes of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. Doctors, lawyers, teachers & other professionals. They did displace those with considerably lower incomes, who couldn't afford to maintain the historic houses - now restored. Of course, they are along with other homeowners & their renters who make more middle or even lower incomes.
*the process whereby the character of a poor urban area is changed by wealthier people moving in, improving housing, and typically displacing current inhabitants in the process.
Or your example in the other post of Night Shift being a positive new choice in the Providence Place Mall.
When did I say anything about Night Shift??? I said Fogo de Chao would be a good addition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsonik
Long Live in Elmwood, which you've cited as a no go in a bad neighborhood.
For one it's in the West End. Two, when did I cite it as a no go??? I did say it's in a bad neighborhood, and to exercise due caution after dark. Standard advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsonik
(And one is a foolish giveaway of disposable income to a failing company, just saying)
Please elaborate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsonik
Also it strikes me that there are a LOT of restaurants on Broad St, and restaurants = disposable income, obviously. (Always cheaper to cook for yourself). Unless they're Dominican I guess. Then they don't count. But if they're Italian on Federal Hill, they count. And if it's Bucktown fried chicken or Yas Fried chicken, claiming to make Southern soul food in a gentrified neighborhood - yaay. But a fried chicken joint in an actual hood? Nah. Because you'll go
.
Bucktown made delicious chicken in their heyday. You can't honestly compare that to a Crown, of I which I wouldn't feed to my dogs. Because it's utter garbage, not because it's in the hood. KFC would be a step up. The prior failed because I guess their quality slipped, as their clientele had a thing called STANDARDS. That is my point. A business won't succeed on Broad St. or Elmwood Ave. unless it does anything but the lowest common denominator. It's why you have Subway right across from the southern portion of the Elmwood Historic District, but not a single good sub shop on all of Elmwood Ave.. Nobody there able or willing to pay the extra couple of bucks for that extra quality.
And you keep ignoring the fact that Westminster St. somehow supports desirable businesses despite bordering the rougher West End (including housing projects), and that Federal Hill already has own business districts entirely within the neighborhood like Atwells Ave, Broadway and Luongo Square.
Honestly, I thought you were either speaking rhetorically about Westminster or being intentionally disingenuous. Either way, I thought the differences between Westminster and Elmwood Ave./Broad St. were clear enough that they didn't really need to be spelled out. But you did earlier try to seriously compare those to streets like Ives and Thayer, so my mistake. Here you go:
Federal Hill and the bulk of the West End (outside of Wiggin Village) along Westminster have always been far more mixed income than Upper/Lower South Providence, Elmwood, etc. Maybe not "nice" in your eyes, but objectively not as low income.
There's always been a fairly sizeable student population in that area, particularly on the Federal Hill side (I had several friends who had apartments between Broadway and Westminster when they were at JWU more than 15 years ago). This is not the case in Elmwood/Upper/Lower South Providence (and less so in the West End vs. Federal Hill).
The eastern portion of Westminster is within walking distance of Downtown Providence and has a concentration of middle/high income workers nearby that doesn't exist near Elmwood Ave. or Broad St. It's much more connected to the heart of the city.
In addition to being much more mixed-income, the area around Westminster has been improving for quite a bit longer than the Elmwood Historic Districts.
The improving residential areas around Westminster are a much larger area than the Elmwood Historic District and much higher density (largely multi-family vs. mostly single family). So there's a significantly greater concentration of "gentrifiers" living along the Westminster corridor than there are in the Elmwood Historic District.
There's a large enough established middle/high income population between these two neighborhoods to support businesses on Atwells/Broadway/Westminster. And given the proximity to downtown and the long-established reputation of Federal Hill (Atwells in particular) as a destination for people from all over the place, they're not reliant on the neighborhood population alone.
Westminster wasn't already the primary commercial district for a different population which makes up the vast majority of the population abutting it (more on this below).
Quote:
While it's true that the Elmwood Historic District is a somewhat small portion of the population that the Broad St. and Elmwood Ave. commercial districts serve, if it's 20% then theoretically 20% of the businesses there should cater to the the gentrifying crowd (that "supposedly" inhabits the historic districts). Taco Bell is literally the most upscale business on Broad St.!
That's an extremely binary way of looking at neighborhood development and not at all reflective of the real world. For starters, the Historic District may make up 20% of the land area, but I doubt the people living there account for even 10% of the population of the West End/Elmwood/Upper & Lower South Providence owing to the large lot sizes and predominantly single-family makeup of the districts.
Second, the neighborhoods abutting Elmwood/Broad are some of the region's most Hispanic. The cluster of businesses along Broad St. are very much a commercial center of sorts catering to that community. While they may be predominantly patronized by lower income, Spanish-speaking clientele, that doesn't mean that they don't provide significant value to the community. It's not at all surprising that they haven't been partially pushed out/replaced with more "upscale" places. Especially when you consider how relatively small the Historic District population is in relation to the larger Hispanic community in the area. Not only that, but I would highly doubt that the patrons of the restaurants, bars, stores, etc. along this stretch are restricted to the residents of the neighborhood. It's a hub for the regional Spanish-speaking community (and not only low-income Spanish-speakers).
My neighborhood (East Boston, particularly Jeffries Point/Maverick) is also largely Hispanic and has seen an influx of more affluent residents for well over a decade. A much longer time than the Elmwood Historic District and on a much larger scale. But if you walk through Maverick Square, the defacto neighborhood center, the businesses are overwhelmingly lower income with most geared toward the local Hispanic community (along with some holdouts from the Italian days like Eddie C's, D'Parma, etc.). There's not one "gentrified" business in the Square that I can think of in spite of the million dollar condos and $4k/mo apartments popping up like weeds around it. It takes a long time before a commercial district tracks along with residential gentrification. Especially so when the residential changes are such a relatively small portion of a neighborhood and you have a much larger and deeply established community already there (and it isn't yet being pushed out). So no, I don't think it's even remotely strange that you haven't seen any businesses catering specifically to the Historic District residents pop up on Elmwood or Broad yet; much less "proof" of anything other than the fact that the people buying homes in the Historic District are still a pretty significant outlier in larger the area.
Also, it's pretty weird that no one is taking into account that the owners in the Elmwood Historic District are both higher income than the rest of Elmwood but may also be Hispanic like much of Elmwood. Like white dudes are saying Where's the Starbucks if it's gentrified?
So many excuses/theories have been put forth in an attempt to explain why the "gentrification" of this area is natural when all signs suggest that it's anything but. None of them are valid, IMO. At the end of the day, nobody cares about this neighborhood other than a select group of people who exploit it.
"Elmwood Historic District" has never been written on the reddit Providence forum. 43K members and in existence since 2010.
"Elmwood Historic District" has never been written on the reddit Rhode Island forum. 80K members and in existence since 2009.
"Elmwood Historic District" has never been mentioned on the Channel 6 website.
"Elmwood Historic District" has never been mentioned on the Channel 10 website.
"Elmwood Historic District" has never been mentioned on the Channel 12 website.
"Elmwood Historic District" has never been mentioned on the Providence Journal website.
"Elmwood Historic District" has been mentioned ONE TIME on the GoLocalProv website.
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