New Orleans to remove Confederate statues, will Monument Ave be next? (Richmond: attorney, home)

[ncoflin]

I genuinely am curious to the pulse of the city and its leadership. As many of you may know New Orleans City Council have voted "yes" on their mayor's proposal to remove several prominent statues dedicated to Confederate Leaders throughout New Orleans. The four slated for removal are of General Lee, Jefferson Davis, General Beauregard, and one erected to the Battle of Liberty Place. I am personally opposed to the removal of these statues and am far from some type of rebel flag enthusiast who will swear up and down the Civil War had almost nothing to do with slavery. I'm really quite the opposite. I am just passionate about history, and feel these figures and monuments dedicated in the late 19th and very early 20th century are important to the city...for better or worse. The monuments themselves are steeped in the history of the city being well known landmarks at this point...regardless of who they are dedicated to. I do personally think it would be nice for cities such as NO and RVA both to add MORE monuments (such as the more recent addition of Arthur Ashe to Monument Ave) in an effort to reflect the diversity of the city and show their history is much more than just being former Confederate strongholds. However I really don't want this to turn into a debate thread about what the Civil War was fought over or if these statues in New Orleans should stay or go...

My question is: Does this news story get a lot of coverage in Richmond due to the amount of prominent historical monuments dedicated to Confederate figures located there? Do you foresee a similar measure passing for the removal of the Richmond statues as the one recently passed in New Orleans?

Anytime I go to Richmond I always remark on the beauty of Monument Avenue. It is ironically beautiful to me in a way to see the diverse groups of young people who congregate in the grass near the Lee statue in modern times. I would hate to see these Richmond monuments removed...even more so than the ones in New Orleans because I have a much higher connection and affinity with the RVA area. I know sporadically these statues on Monument Ave have been vandalized, but I have yet to hear any serious calls for removal of them altogether. Not being a local, I just wonder if there is serious talk on the streets amongst locals.

[Gardner222]

While I live in western Va, which was more Union loyal during the civil war I often wonder what the Richmond people think of
those monuments too. Here in Roanoke, a group of Sons of Confederate Veterans (a non hate group) sponsored a float in the
Christmas parade waving the Confederate flag. The local chapter of the NAACP protested at the parade! The city council could
not prevent the group from waving the flag as the law allows "freedom of speech" for all people. The flag is now seen as a hate
symbol and it is banned on license tags. In a high school in an all white area the kids wore confederate shirts, etc and they were
sent home as if they were criminals. In Danville Va the same issues are going on with confederate symbols, they just put up
a giant billboard with the confederate flag. BTW, its close to the 3 giant crucifixtion crosses. I guess you will get responses from
people who think all symbols of the past should be removed, just like Germany did with the Nazis. Realistically, there will be
people who honor their past and they dont intend their respect to be offensive. Now, what to do with Monument Avenue???

[Babe_Ruth]

Originally Posted by Gardner222

the Nazis.

Gardner, I find this ^ to be an important point, and frame of reference. When Hitler came in to power, Nazis began a concerted effort to remove statues honoring Jewish people (ie- the vandalism, ordered removal, and destruction of Jewish writer, Heinrich Heine' statue).
Confederate monuments & graves are now being vandalized, defaced, & relegated to storage. There was a guy arrested & convicted for vandalizing a Richmond Confederate monument recently. And like contemporary efforts to remove Confederate statues, Nazis (also) rationalized their bigoted erasing of history (they didn't like/endorse). The explanations for why Jewish & Confederate monuments were (& are) being destroyed were different, but I submit, the spirit is the same. I hope people ultimately understand this, & stand up to bigots who try and erase the Confederate memorials, bcuz I fear the anti-Confederate endgame is similar to the Nazis.. I believe any time a bigot tries to erase someone else's culture & history, they're ultimately trying to erase them as well.

Here's a link to the story over the summer, guy who was caught vandalizing statue in Richmond.. It's not all bad news, there are volunteers currently protecting those monuments. And I do think some of this current, anti-Confederate hysteria will be rolled back.. Hoping for mutual respect between Americans, we'll see:
Attorney: Man regrets defacing Confederate monument with "loser" sign - CBS News

[richmondpics]

Originally Posted by Babe_Ruth

bcuz I fear the anti-Confederate endgame is similar to the Nazis.. I believe any time a bigot tries to erase someone else's culture & history, they're ultimately trying to erase them as well.

This is absolutely absurd. Are you actually insinuating there will be a rounding up the people whose ancestors were confederate veterans, placed in concentration camps and killed in a genocide ???

[Babe_Ruth]

Originally Posted by richmondpics

This is absolutely absurd. Are you actually insinuating there will be a rounding up the people

Richmond, hi.. It's not absurd.. The Nazis disassembled the rights & culture of German Jews in increments. It didn't suddenly occur overnight.. Nazis began with the destruction of Jewish businesses, statues, and expelling Jewish professors from universities.
To me, this is very similar to what is happening to Americans who support Confederate history. Confederate statues & graves are being vandalized & destroyed. Vendors are being banned from selling Confederate flags in certain stores & websites (ie -eBay's ban). And people are being expelled from schools for simply displaying Confederate items (not even necessarily espousing specific beliefs about the Confederate flag).

Now, I'll turn the question back to you (if you're game, and can be respectful). What do you believe is the end game when a group of people, forcefully & aggressively, try to erase/destroy the symbols of another cultural group (?) peace.

[aquest1]

Originally Posted by Babe_Ruth

Richmond, hi.. It's not absurd.. The Nazis disassembled the rights & culture of German Jews in increments. It didn't suddenly occur overnight.. Nazis began with the destruction of Jewish businesses, statues, and expelling Jewish professors from universities.
To me, this is very similar to what is happening to Americans who support Confederate history. Confederate statues & graves are being vandalized & destroyed. Vendors are being banned from selling Confederate flags in certain stores & websites (ie -eBay's ban). And people are being expelled from schools for simply displaying Confederate items (not even necessarily espousing specific beliefs about the Confederate flag).

Now, I'll turn the question back to you (if you're game, and can be respectful). What do you believe is the end game when a group of people, forcefully & aggressively, try to erase/destroy the symbols of another cultural group (?) peace.

I'm going to jump in here. Listen, I am not for removal of historical statues and monuments - there is too much history that is vested in the monuments themselves to up and remove them. But I am for otherwise creating a reasonable and contextual setting where history can be viewed in light of its significance. That means in a museum or historical society. Everyone knows that Confederate symbolism is evocative to those who believe it stands for the defense of challenging authority; while it is provocative to many who believe it to be a symbol of an oppressive even traitorous regime. So there there is nothing gained nor need to debate the merits of Confederate ideology or its flaws to maintain that keeping it in context is important. I do believe that symbolism is a powerful expression of sentiment, which is why when "the public" is speaking it has to be representative of the full breadth of the public. It's entirely different from a concerted effort to hide or eliminate something controversial. It's not persecution or aggressive destruction and it's wrong to call it that. Rather, presenting symbols like the Confederate Flag within their context invites the proper debate in the appropriate setting.

Why does it have to happen to Confederate symbols and not others? Because when you present them, you cannot identify the meaning on its own; they simultaneously brand both the hatefulness of racial oppression, slavery and the antebellum hierarchy, while also pointing to a revolutionary fight for rights. You have to have some context. And let's be clear - as society, we do not stand for oppression, racial or religious hierarchies, etc. It's clear that the good people of New Orleans no longer see those statues, out prominently in the public square, as good representatives of who they are today.

[Riverdog]

Removing monuments that represent an ideology with which we are uncomfortable today is not "erasing history." (I am picturing someone with a giant eraser, going around rubbing out the fact of slavery at all. Wouldn't that be nice?)

I think, in fact, the conversation about removing monuments is doing the opposite of erasing, by bringing up what happened and discussing the past and what it means. It's a deeper conversation about our history, which can only be a good thing, whether it results in removal or not.

That said, I am ambivalent. Not being a native Richmonder, I think that's probably my role, I don't get to decide.

[LynchburgLover]

Not opining pro or con -- but consider the tax revenue that is generated in Virginia from Civil War history.

[green_mariner]

I say good riddance to Confederate monuments. This is the USA, not the CSA.

[NORVA]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I say good riddance to Confederate monuments. This is the USA, not the CSA.

Disagree, flags on official state items, yes. Statues? No. Statues are memorials of the past for good or bad. This is not the same as the state of sc having the flag up on state grounds.

Plus, almost all of the CSA generals were USMA graduates and officers in the US Army. They helped make this countries military the best in the world.