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Note that while Great Pyrenees dogs are great sheep dogs, they bark all the time and are not good pets, and if your neighbors can hear the barking, they won't be pleased with it. Not usually.
They also chase off coyotes, if you have those around.
Having known and had Pyrs and Pyr crosses, this shouldn't be the case. At least not "all the time".
When we moved out to the ranch, it was interesting to realize that coyotes and Pyrs apparently have a gentleman's agreement in which coyotes will NOT go onto property owned by a Pyr (and they consider their own range - the Pyr's - to be about 600 acres). And to listen each night as the coyotes sang and the Pyrs on the places that had them sang back. I'm sure it was incredibly rude, but it sounded lovely. We could also tell by their singing, to our amusement, how the coyote bands moved around the countryside carefully skirting the places guarded by Pyrs. But that was about it for the Pyr barking - not just ours but all the others - unless there was a Very Good Reason for it.
Our current Tibetan Mastiff/German Shepherd cross, on the other hand, sometimes just Will Not Shut Up - he gets on the doggie net with all the other dogs for miles around like a teenager. But he's young and can be trained out of it. We can tell the difference between doggie net bark and coyote get the hell out of here bark or real trouble get out here bark. The old Pyr/Lab cross barks at the Tibetan Mastiff and at coyotes but not at anything else.
As for work keeping livestock, it can be a lot of work depending on the livestock, how much land you have, how much grazing you have. Horses are a lot more work than cattle, for example, unless they are dairy cows in which case reverse that. Chickens can be surprisingly little work - we were better able to leave the chickens for a few days at a time with the proper feeders and waterer set-up - or they can be a lot, depending on your set-up. Goats I have no experience with though I've thought about it on occasion.
You can sometimes get individuals who make a living (a good one) caring for animals either every day or when their owners are gone - usually it is cats and dogs but some of them handle farm animals as well (I know of a couple of people who do that).
Here's a few of our menagerie.... Goats grazing in the yard, Momma hen with chicks, and the reason we can't have fancy dinner parties around here.
We keep our goats and sheep just as pets also, we don't eat them. We like the little goat breeds best, and they're the easiest to fence for, handle and trim. But we do have a couple of the big ones also... that just sortof appeared like they do.
I'm not talking about a major operation. Just a dozen sheep or so, some chickens, a horse, maybe a couple of goats. We have been talking about selling a few of our properties to buy a farm and getting some livestock.
You have outlined an operation that will REQUIRE substantial commitments every day of the year.
There's no such thing as a "day off" from taking care of so many head of different livestock. All need to be fed and supplied with clean water at ALL TIMES. All need access to suitable shelter during inclement weather, nighttime protection from predators, possibly a livestock guardian dog (or two, especially for the sheep), vigilant protection from neighbor's dogs, and oft-times protection from "tourists" who think it's cute to stop by, look at your livestock, and FEED them stuff which you cannot control.
At our ranch/farm, we started with a few goats. Next thing you know, we've got meat breeds … and repeated/continual efforts to repair and maintain fences, or upgrade them to keep the goats on our property. Goats love to wander! Goats love to challenge your fences, and they're smart about finding a weak spot and returning to it and working it until it fails. Even a 5-strand barbed wire with sheep wire fencing will eventually yield to a determined goat. In due course, we found the goats weren't worth the effort and sold them when sheep appeared to be a better financial and easier to keep livestock.
So our sheep started with a handful of meat breed sheep. In due course, that became a dozen ewes and a ram. Then a "few more" ewes. In time, we have over 100 ewes and several rams (which all need to be kept separated except for the times the ewes are in with the rams). This means more corrals, more fencing, more livestock waterers, more time spent checking on everybody every day.
Horses? now you're really adding a commitment to the mix. If you want to keep them in good condition and health, they are a major time investment. Yes, a lot of folk just turn their horses out to roam on pastures and ignore them. Ya think those horses stay trained/safely rideable? No f'ing way. They quickly revert to their own herd mentality and your horsemanship skills will be challenged if you're not out there asserting your leadership. I've seen more "problem" horses created this way … they "need" a job unless you're happy to have an expensive lawn ornament that eats and sh*ts while you sleep.
Chickens? again, you're looking at livestock that needs to be fed and watered, provided shelter, and maintained in a healthy, safe, environment. Yeah, they'll come into a coop at night, you can keep them in a barn or a chicken tractor … but, like all livestock, they need to be monitored and maintained.
Don't forget all of the veterinary requirements that all of your critters require for optimum health and longevity and/or productivity. Depending upon where you plan to set up operations, climate and soils can have significant impact. For example, worms in ruminants can be a continuous battle and care issue, requiring medication, isolation, and sanitary requirements for your property. Some diseases cannot be eliminated at all, which can require treatment and rotation of treatments to try to keep your livestock healthy. Bear in mind that some poultry ailments can cross over to adversely affect the ruminants. Absent a knowledgeable vet in your area, it's a difficult proposition to manage … and it will be a significant expense. It's not unlikely that you'll need to learn how to administer meds … oral and by injection … which aren't always going to be calmly received by your livestock needing treatment.
Shearing? it takes me an hour to shear a willing/cooperative ewe with a gentle temperament. That's on a shearing stand with old shears, a couple sets of electric clippers, and one professional hand piece clipper driven by an overhead motor. Even with the best of care, it's not difficult to make a mistake while shearing and open up a long cut through the skin with a swipe of the shearing cutter. Back when we were showing Angora goats, we had more than a few times when a goat moved at the wrong time when a shearing pass was made and Mrs Sun had to stich up the wound. Now we've got enough head of sheep to bring in a pro shearer (there's a mileage "call out" charge) at $5.50 per ewe and double that for a ram … and it still takes us bringing in a couple of folk to help with bringing the sheep in to the barn area set-up for shearing and then taking them out, picking up the fleeces, and generally keeping the area safe for the shearers. Twice a year … are you ready to do this stuff? When a pro shearer does a ewe in a couple minutes, you've got to keep up with bringing another one to them and taking the shorn one away … do not kid yourself, this is real work and it takes us 3 people to keep up with each shearer. Unless you've got the most docile and trained sheep around, it will be a work-out you cannot imagine for each head of sheep.
How many hours daily would you estimate it takes to care for the animals listed above?
I wouldn't be surprised if you came close to a 3-4 hour/day average if there were no unusual items needing attention. But one day with a colic'ed horse, or a ill animal on the farm can add many multiples of that time. And if a fence needs fixing, perhaps a fence post replaced … it can be a lot more time. Don't forget how much time/effort may be spent locating, rounding up, and retrieving a stray animal back to your place.
If you have a farm with livestock, what do you do when you have to leave home for several days?
For our first several years, there were no days away from home. We just couldn't find anybody who was competent and knowledgeable who had the time to spare, even though we had a bunkhouse for them to live in on site while we were away.
We finally found some neighbors who have similar operations to ours and we reciprocate in taking care of each other's places for livestock issues when trying to "get away" for some time. But for us to "escape" for a couple week vacation trip last fall, it took the combined resources of three different neighbors and an on-site college girl living in our bunkhouse (grew up on a local farm/ranch, is an accomplished 4-h'er) to take care of all the livestock, domestic dogs and cats. At that, one night she discovered a racoon had scaled a power pole in one of the corrals and had all the livestock and LGD's pretty upset. Even though she's an accomplished trained firearm user, she still had to call out (wake up and get them to come over) another neighbor to dispatch the racoon at 11 pm and end the disturbance.
I can't imagine leaving this place when lambing is in progress, as it is right now for about a month or two. Nor can I leave this place when alfalfa haying is in progress. Or during the winter cold times when storms and snow can add a huge amount of time to dealing with feeding and watering livestock. Trusting that somebody else could deal with frozen pipes/stock waterers is almost impossible. Not that my neighbors couldn't deal with our water system, but it's a huge imposition to ask them to do so in sub-zero temps when they have their own farms/ranches/livestock to deal with in the cold weather.
Don't forget the impact that "bottle babies" can have on your lifestyle. Now you're out taking care of livestock at all hours, day and night. "lamb milk replacer" is costly, and it's time consuming to milk out a ewe to feed the little ones (Mrs Sun swears by her "udderly E-Z milker" for the milking chores). The little ones (and the ewe) don't give a damn about your work schedule for other purposes, they become an absolute priority until they are weaned.
What do you wish you knew before getting livestock?
The realities of how much a commitment they represent in time, effort, energy, infrastructure, vet'ting, well care, and just normal maintenance every day.
We bought our place (combination irrigated farm/ranch) with the intent of having a place to keep and ride our horses, raise livestock for consumption and sale, and have pastures and alfalfa to feed our own livestock. It was supposed to be a "semi-retirement" business and a source of controlling much of our food intake sources with organic/free-range quality items. The reality is that there is no "retirement" in these ventures.
As well, the monetary outlay of all these ventures is enormous. One thinks that with a nominal acreage, you can raise irrigated alfalfa and harvest, bale, retrieve, and stack it with the small farm equipment of yesteryear. Such as a 8N Ford with a sickle bar mower, small rake, modest small baler, and then a flat bed trailer to retrieve the bales and stack them in the hay yard. It's a rude awakening to realize that such dreams are not achievable, especially as one ages and the amount of hand hard labor of yesteryear isn't on tap anymore nor can be conveniently hired out. I wen through several iterations of larger haying equipment, now with a JD 4520 running a 1600A Swather, 567 round baler, and a JD 4020 running the 24' wide hay rake and doing the retrieval/stacking/feeding chores. I'd been through the smaller baler and a 1033 stackwagon to retrieve/stack hay with the JD 4020, and handling small square bales (80 lbs each) was a daunting chore as time went on. Big rounds are the way to go for our operation, I can feed 1,500-2,000lbs of hay at a time. But after two years with the JD 1600A, I can see the writing on the wall … a self-propelled (likely a JD 4590) swather will be the ticket in a year or two for increased efficiency to cut a crop, typically running 300-350 tons/in a good year. At that, the regional market has shifted and "big square" bales are the better commercial commodity now. For the moment, I'll have to contract out baling those big squares … and that's a real challenge, getting one of those guys to come over when my hay is at it's prime cure and moisture level to properly bale. But when the hay is ready, it's ready and I've got it all raked up for baling … more than once, the "big baler" guys were down at another farm and my hay sat on the ground for a few days, losing quality and needing to be raked again (which loses quality).
Add in all the other equipment … a 35 hp diesel tractor for utility chores, an old small Mustang skid-steer for cleaning out barns and corrals, tractor attachments (post hole digger, ditcher, rakes, box scraper blade, post pounder, fork lift arms for the three point, bale spears for the round bales, etc) … and it's a significant capital investment. More sheds, more barn space, another workshop so I can do equipment repairs and have a 10,000 lb above ground vehicle hoist … it all adds up. Hand labor inevitably needs to be replaced as much as possible with machinery and equipment, especially as you age and/or cannot find paid help or contractors.
Vehicles become an additional expense, too. You may need something bigger than a 2-horse BP trailer for so many sheep. That means a stock trailer and a pick-up truck sufficient to haul it. In our place, we've got several stock trailers up through a 30' GN trailer, and 2 ea 3/4 ton turbo-diesel pick-up trucks (one's the "nice one" to go to sale barns and travels, the other is the "utility" one that does the fencing, hauls the smaller trailers locally, does the county dump runs, etc). Not wise to use the trucks for transportation, so that means having cars for that purpose, too. And then there's utility ATV's, which find hundreds of chores to justify their use around the place.
Don't forget manure/wastes (such as old used bedding). What's your plan for gathering up, cleaning out, and disposing of this stuff from your place? Gonna' shovel it by hand? with all the sheep and the horse, don't count on being physically able to do so. A small loader/skid-steer becomes your "right hand" help for such … and helps justify that 2nd utility truck.
The bottom line is that if you do go into such an operation as you've outlined, know in advance that it's not a trivial commitment for time, effort, energy, and expense. It will be a dominant factor in your daily life until you quit doing this stuff. As well, don't count on seeing any "profit" from your venture … more likely, it will be quite a draw upon your financial resources. It really comes down to being a "lifestyle" choice. Good Luck.
A few things I've learned after getting our sheep as older, rescued rams who we neutered.
We DO have a shearer who comes, a little 4H gal who only weighs about 95 pounds and can get them done in about 5 minutes each. She's good and worth the money... we pay her $150 for our four. We've done it twice a year, in March and August, and that worked out well for the comfort of the animal in late summer when it's hot here. Still plenty of time for fleece to grow back enough for them to be warm in winter.
If you want the fiber, you might want to sheer only once per year, for better growth, and you may find yourself trying to keep them very clean with little coats so they don't get too much dirt and vegetable matter mixed in the fleece. People who pay for fiber want it really clean and perfect. We always find takers for our fleeces on homesteading groups.. but we give it away. Our sheep are not clean sheep, they're out in the rain and they lay on the ground outside, and on shavings and hay inside, which is actually worse. Ah well...
As far as fencing, we do use a wire mesh fence along with electric, a strand low, middle and on top, both to keep the goats and sheep IN, and to provide some protection from predators. But that's all we've needed.... if goats and sheep (and horses and cows for that matter) have adequate food and water and room to move, they don't push fences or try to get out. In fact, ours are so skittish when we've let them out onto our lower, unfenced property, they won't go more than a quick sprint past the gate, they are too afraid of monsters out there. Good! Easier for us that way.
I should mention that neither my husband nor I eat meat, nor do we intend to butcher any animals. We would be looking for wool and milk from any goats or sheep....
Chickens and ducks will lay without needing a rooster or drake around, but dairy sheep and goats need to give birth yearly to produce milk - and half those lambs and kids will be male. You won't be able to keep them all, so you need to be prepared for the reality that the male offspring will mostly be going for slaughter (even though you won't be doing the deed yourself). Very few people want a grown ram or a billy goat on the premises, and the market for pet wethers is a small one.
Chickens and ducks will lay without needing a rooster or drake around, but dairy sheep and goats need to give birth yearly to produce milk - and half those lambs and kids will be male. You won't be able to keep them all, so you need to be prepared for the reality that the male offspring will mostly be going for slaughter (even though you won't be doing the deed yourself). Very few people want a grown ram or a billy goat on the premises, and the market for pet wethers is a small one.
I understand that. I'm not unfamiliar with the reality of farm life. We just won't be raising animals to sell their meat. Likewise I understand that if an animal is I'll it often has to be put down.
I think there's a lot of market around where we are for pet goats, wethers included. I know I always see them advertised for $100-200. More than I think they should cost.
We bought the first two... the rest, like I said... they just happened.
I don't think you need to make it too time consuming or own a bunch of equipment and such to own a few pet goats or sheep.... but we did finally buy a tractor last year that my husband loves very much.
Except for the "chickens are fun" part, lollol. I was raised on a dairy farm which also included pigs and chickens. I was four when I got my first job of gathering eggs out from under those hens --- some of whom could be really nasty when I was trying to get their eggs out from under them, lollol
I still have horses. There is no going away overnight . Unless you have someone very reliable to feed the livestock and to make sure they always have fresh water.
Owning and caring for livestock is not something to be done in a flip and half-awrse manner.
Some city folks take on the task and do a phenomenal job of being caregivers to their livestock. Others shouldn't even have stuffed animals off the WalMart shelf.
Plan on being married to the critters. Learn to recognize the health issues of each type and have an veterinary emergency fund.
Be prepared to be be fixing fences and bush hogging pastures with frequency. That all requires special tools, unless you have plenty of $$$$ to hire someone.
Pastures --- that's another thing --- do NOT plan on over loading small acreage with lots of critters. I was raised The Rule of Thumb is five acres per head of large livestock. My current Ag person told me that same rule still applies today. By large livestock I mean cattle and horses, I don't know the general rule for sheep and goats but you need to know overcrowding begets a huge patch of mud and having to hay that livestock 365 days/year.
The part about not going away overnight, if you have farm animals, is the worst part. It's easier to find a babysitter for several unruly children, than to find someone skilled and dependable enough to care for your livestock.
Things are always happening. Fences and cages are knocked-down by falling limbs or dogs will dig under them and cause havoc. Your livestock will be running loose and who would be able to get them back, except you? Then there'll be sickness or injury, birth complications, etc. You have a 365-day-a-year job, as head of this big family and you'd better really like doing it, because it's never-ending.
Start out with a dozen laying hens and see how that works out, before expanding. Maybe a rooster, if you don't sleep-in. Some of them start crowing at 3 am. And you'll need a good, tough dog, to warn you of raids by coyotes, bobcats and raccoons. And a couple of hard-working cats, to take care of the rats and mice.
My wife and I are currently living on our 65 acre homestead, gave thought to livestock many times over, realized that was just a fantasy, heck, I can barely keep up with the groundwork.
I’ve come to realize, homesteading / farming is a young persons game, if one doesn’t have a good support team forgetaboutit.
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