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I'm interested in other people's insights on this...
We have a camping lake lot in a place called Woodland Lakes. Woodland Lakes consists of camping lots, (you can put a small cabin or as many travel trailers, 5th wheels, etc as you want) multipurpose lots (that you can camp and/or build, but if you build, you'll have to have a well and septic system put in), and building lots, on which owners can put permanent homes, along with well and septic system.
In the past year, we've had quite an influx of new owners, mostly weekenders, (camping lots) because of COVID. When everything else is shut down, you can still go camping, and get away from it all. It HAS taxed our infrastructure, and people in general, complain a lot about it.
As an owner, one has the right to invite guests to come out. Guests are not allowed to bring toys in. By toys, I mean things like boats, kayaks, side by sides, ATV's...stuff like that. An owner also has the right to buy family passes, and if you have a family pass, you CAN bring toys in.
When and if people get delinquent in their property taxes, after 2 yrs (I think it's 2 years) the lot can be bought for $100 from the county. Doesn't matter what kind of lot...it's considered a tax lot, and can be bought for $100.
SOOO, that's the background situation. Here's the...interesting part. It's come to the trustees attention, that 2 corporate entities have bought up a bunch of the camping lots, with the intention of putting small cabins on the lots, and renting them out, Air BnB style.
For the sake of simple math, Let's say there's 100 lots total, 50% owned by 50 individual families, with the rights and priviledges of being owners. One corporate entity buys 20 lots, and the other corp. entity buys 30.
Lots of owners are all upset and worried about this. Lots of cries of how it'll over tax our infrastructure even more, renters won't be accountable, if stuff gets destroyed, bunch of strangers running around...stuff like that.
I, personally, don't have a problem with this happening. I don't see it being the big disaster a lot of people seem to think it will be.
Those 50 lots were for sale. Whether 50 more individual families bought the lots, or the corp identities bought the lots...it's the same number of lots. Buyers or renters...the more people, the more the infrastructure gets strained. Doesn't matter if it's a renter, or a family.
Second, renters would be guests. As guests, they won't be allowed to bring toys in. But, they'd get to fish, they'd get to swim in the lakes or the pool, and they'd get to enjoy the camping life. Without toys, they're not going to be able to speed around in ATVs or jet skis, etc. And they'd be pretty much limited to driving around in their transportation vehicle so you'd likely be limiting your driving around on gravel roads as much as possible. So not as much likelihood of poking around in places they shouldn't be.
Now, we DO have a problem with vandalism and thievery. Woodland Lakes is a rural development, with lots of woods, and there are ways to sneak in, and poke around in (mostly weekenders) lots, and steal stuff that's not secured. And that's one of the arguments used to NOT allow this renting thing. People say these potential renters wouldn't be accountable to anyone (as say...a guest of a family owner) and they think the vandalism and thievery would only get worse. I don't know, I don't really see that happening.
This whole thing was the hot topic on the Woodland Lakes Facebook group over the weekend. My POV is a minority opinion. What do you all think?
I would not think the type of person who would rent a camping cabin would be the type to vandalize or steal. Personally I dont think I would like a parade of strangers in and out. If it were 50 individuals at lest you would eventually come to know them and their presence would probably not be as heavy as constant short time renters.
As an owner of a lot is it permitted for you to rent out your lot?
I would not think the type of person who would rent a camping cabin would be the type to vandalize or steal. Personally I dont think I would like a parade of strangers in and out. If it were 50 individuals at lest you would eventually come to know them and their presence would probably not be as heavy as constant short time renters.
As an owner of a lot is it permitted for you to rent out your lot?
1. Regarding whether a renter would vandalize or steal, I agree with you. But there's always been this back and forth between "full timers" and "weekenders", each blaming the other for whatever bad stuff happens. WHEN bad stuff happens, usually they don't catch whoever did the bad thing, so who knows.
2. We're a rather large development. Over 100 miles of road, and over 1000 acres. We've had property at Woodland Lakes for 12 yrs now, and there are FAR FAR more people I don't know, than people I do. The vast majority are strangers to me, except for anyone I might interact with on the Facebook group. Even then, if I saw them out and about, I'm not sure I'd recognize them.
Also, I forgot to mention, but guests currently have to keep a placard in the dashboard of their vehicles that says "GUEST". So there's that.
3. Regarding if it's allowed to rent out your lot...during the discussion in the Facebook thread, some people said it wasn't allowed, but no one could point to any of the by-laws to say so, and there were a couple of trustees in the discussion, and they couldn't point to anything either, saying it wasn't allowed.
Also, one of the trustees wants to make an amendment to vote on, basically saying only trustees should be in charge of buying up tax lots, to keep these corporate types out. Well...I think that ship has sailed. They already bought like 50 lots between the two entities. Plus, it's been problematic in the past, when one of the trustees knew about a lot going up for sale, and had one of his buddies buy it without the lot being advertised.
BUT, I've often thought it would not be hard to rent out your lot, if you felt inclined. You just need to be at the front gate to sign the guest/renter in...and that's it, and no one would be the wiser. It's not something I would want to do. We have STUFF there. And WE use our lot for OUR relaxation, etc.
But if someone was wanting to make money...put a miminalist cabin on the lot, maybe a fire pit...and voila, rent it out.
I just thought of something. If you rented out your lot, the renters could very possibly talk to other people, and mention that they were renting a cabin on such and such a road for the weekend, etc. So...it's probably inaccurate to say no one would be the wiser. Probably eventually...people WOULD be the wiser.
Last edited by Sassybluesy; 02-03-2021 at 02:50 PM..
I'm interested in other people's insights on this...
We have a camping lake lot in a place called Woodland Lakes. Woodland Lakes consists of camping lots, (you can put a small cabin or as many travel trailers, 5th wheels, etc as you want) multipurpose lots (that you can camp and/or build, but if you build, you'll have to have a well and septic system put in), and building lots, on which owners can put permanent homes, along with well and septic system.
In the past year, we've had quite an influx of new owners, mostly weekenders, (camping lots) because of COVID. When everything else is shut down, you can still go camping, and get away from it all. It HAS taxed our infrastructure, and people in general, complain a lot about it.
As an owner, one has the right to invite guests to come out. Guests are not allowed to bring toys in. By toys, I mean things like boats, kayaks, side by sides, ATV's...stuff like that. An owner also has the right to buy family passes, and if you have a family pass, you CAN bring toys in.
When and if people get delinquent in their property taxes, after 2 yrs (I think it's 2 years) the lot can be bought for $100 from the county. Doesn't matter what kind of lot...it's considered a tax lot, and can be bought for $100.
SOOO, that's the background situation. Here's the...interesting part. It's come to the trustees attention, that 2 corporate entities have bought up a bunch of the camping lots, with the intention of putting small cabins on the lots, and renting them out, Air BnB style.
For the sake of simple math, Let's say there's 100 lots total, 50% owned by 50 individual families, with the rights and priviledges of being owners. One corporate entity buys 20 lots, and the other corp. entity buys 30.
Lots of owners are all upset and worried about this. Lots of cries of how it'll over tax our infrastructure even more, renters won't be accountable, if stuff gets destroyed, bunch of strangers running around...stuff like that.
I, personally, don't have a problem with this happening. I don't see it being the big disaster a lot of people seem to think it will be.
Those 50 lots were for sale. Whether 50 more individual families bought the lots, or the corp identities bought the lots...it's the same number of lots. Buyers or renters...the more people, the more the infrastructure gets strained. Doesn't matter if it's a renter, or a family.
Second, renters would be guests. As guests, they won't be allowed to bring toys in. But, they'd get to fish, they'd get to swim in the lakes or the pool, and they'd get to enjoy the camping life. Without toys, they're not going to be able to speed around in ATVs or jet skis, etc. And they'd be pretty much limited to driving around in their transportation vehicle so you'd likely be limiting your driving around on gravel roads as much as possible. So not as much likelihood of poking around in places they shouldn't be.
Now, we DO have a problem with vandalism and thievery. Woodland Lakes is a rural development, with lots of woods, and there are ways to sneak in, and poke around in (mostly weekenders) lots, and steal stuff that's not secured. And that's one of the arguments used to NOT allow this renting thing. People say these potential renters wouldn't be accountable to anyone (as say...a guest of a family owner) and they think the vandalism and thievery would only get worse. I don't know, I don't really see that happening.
This whole thing was the hot topic on the Woodland Lakes Facebook group over the weekend. My POV is a minority opinion. What do you all think?
They may not be able to bring in their toys, but they can bring in their noise. We live in a nice rural community where everyone lives here either full or part time. No renters are allowed except for a couple of rental cabins that were exempted years ago. Especially in the summer and on some holidays, there are issues with lots of noise, fireworks, loud music, etc. I feel badly for the people who live close by.
They may not be able to bring in their toys, but they can bring in their noise. We live in a nice rural community where everyone lives here either full or part time. No renters are allowed except for a couple of rental cabins that were exempted years ago. Especially in the summer and on some holidays, there are issues with lots of noise, fireworks, loud music, etc. I feel badly for the people who live close by.
But this would be a problem if individual families bought the lots too. More people, more noise, more trash, etc.
But this would be a problem if individual families bought the lots too. More people, more noise, more trash, etc.
You're going to have a decision to make whether to keep your lot as is, build on it, or sell to an investor.
A fifty lot development is going to create issues, the first of which will be water and sewer/septic. The developer may have to build a central system for those to service all the new houses/cottages. That might impact your ability to build, or a buyer's, later. It could make your lot essentially worthless or too expensive to improve. Also, electric service will have to be upgraded and cell and internet service be made available.
Then there will be the construction. Site prep and construction will likely be a two or three year endeavor and being near a lake will entail some additional measures to control runoff both during and after construction.
Then there will be roads. That many new houses, even if they're in a BnB model, will likely mean the roads will have to be upgraded. Will that fall on all the property owners through a POA or will the developer have to cover it? Since this is currently a camping area which sounds like it's somewhat primitive how will that impact that aspect?
I'm sorry to say it but I have the feeling your little piece of paradise is going to become something entirely different. For reference, I've seen it happen here in Southern Maryland.
EDIT: One thing I forgot is that the new owners and their BnB model probably won't like their high dollar clients driving by groups of tents, camping trailers and 5th wheel campers.
You're going to have a decision to make whether to keep your lot as is, build on it, or sell to an investor.
A fifty lot development is going to create issues, the first of which will be water and sewer/septic. The developer may have to build a central system for those to service all the new houses/cottages. That might impact your ability to build, or a buyer's, later. It could make your lot essentially worthless or too expensive to improve. Also, electric service will have to be upgraded and cell and internet service be made available.
Then there will be the construction. Site prep and construction will likely be a two or three year endeavor and being near a lake will entail some additional measures to control runoff both during and after construction.
Then there will be roads. That many new houses, even if they're in a BnB model, will likely mean the roads will have to be upgraded. Will that fall on all the property owners through a POA or will the developer have to cover it? Since this is currently a camping area which sounds like it's somewhat primitive how will that impact that aspect?
I'm sorry to say it but I have the feeling your little piece of paradise is going to become something entirely different. For reference, I've seen it happen here in Southern Maryland.
EDIT: One thing I forgot is that the new owners and their BnB model probably won't like their high dollar clients driving by groups of tents, camping trailers and 5th wheel campers.
You might want to reread the original post. These are existing lots around this lake. It is not a new development adding 50 NEW lots in one large group to the existing 100 that are already there. Air BnB rentals do not automatically mean high dollar luxury accommodations. They might end up being small cabins designed for people who just want to get away for a while. Air BnB is a property management model, not a building design requirement. I know of a particular developer who rents out their cabins for $10 per night (certain restrictions apply).
OP - A group of anonymous posters on an online forum can offer insight on similar situations they may have gone through, but you are the one that has specifics about your case. It sounds to me that the way to get answers to your specific questions would be to contact the trustees who oversee your development. I would strongly suggest that the communication be in writing to create a paper trail. You may consider phone or face to face discussions, but always follow up with a note, or better yet, an email or text to confirm what was said. It could come in handy later if the need arises.
Good luck on this, and I hope you are able to maintain the relaxing atmosphere you are used to.
1. Regarding whether a renter would vandalize or steal, I agree with you. But there's always been this back and forth between "full timers" and "weekenders", each blaming the other for whatever bad stuff happens. WHEN bad stuff happens, usually they don't catch whoever did the bad thing, so who knows.
2. We're a rather large development. Over 100 miles of road, and over 1000 acres. We've had property at Woodland Lakes for 12 yrs now, and there are FAR FAR more people I don't know, than people I do. The vast majority are strangers to me, except for anyone I might interact with on the Facebook group. Even then, if I saw them out and about, I'm not sure I'd recognize them.
Also, I forgot to mention, but guests currently have to keep a placard in the dashboard of their vehicles that says "GUEST". So there's that.
3. Regarding if it's allowed to rent out your lot...during the discussion in the Facebook thread, some people said it wasn't allowed, but no one could point to any of the by-laws to say so, and there were a couple of trustees in the discussion, and they couldn't point to anything either, saying it wasn't allowed.
Also, one of the trustees wants to make an amendment to vote on, basically saying only trustees should be in charge of buying up tax lots, to keep these corporate types out. Well...I think that ship has sailed. They already bought like 50 lots between the two entities. Plus, it's been problematic in the past, when one of the trustees knew about a lot going up for sale, and had one of his buddies buy it without the lot being advertised.
BUT, I've often thought it would not be hard to rent out your lot, if you felt inclined. You just need to be at the front gate to sign the guest/renter in...and that's it, and no one would be the wiser. It's not something I would want to do. We have STUFF there. And WE use our lot for OUR relaxation, etc.
But if someone was wanting to make money...put a miminalist cabin on the lot, maybe a fire pit...and voila, rent it out.
I just thought of something. If you rented out your lot, the renters could very possibly talk to other people, and mention that they were renting a cabin on such and such a road for the weekend, etc. So...it's probably inaccurate to say no one would be the wiser. Probably eventually...people WOULD be the wiser.
Being that large I don't see how the rentals would be a problem for the individual lot owners. It sounds if all lots were intended to be used so as you say you most likely would not know most of your "neighbors" anyway.
I was wondering if the private owners were allowed to rent out their cabins or space for airbnb or similar situation because if you are not I dont see how these lots being bought by corporations would be allowed to.
You're going to have a decision to make whether to keep your lot as is, build on it, or sell to an investor.
A fifty lot development is going to create issues, the first of which will be water and sewer/septic. The developer may have to build a central system for those to service all the new houses/cottages. My understanding is that these will all be camping lots. Not multipurpose or building lots. As a camping lot, there won't be septic or wells. Just a cabin. But they can have electric installed.
That might impact your ability to build, or a buyer's, later. It could make your lot essentially worthless or too expensive to improve. Also, electric service will have to be upgraded and cell and internet service be made available. Again...these will be camping lots. Also, we already have a cell tower there.
Then there will be the construction. Site prep and construction will likely be a two or three year endeavor and being near a lake will entail some additional measures to control runoff both during and after construction. I DID think about that. And the impact it might have on everyone else. There likely would be a lot of trucks going back and forth, hauling dirt or gravel in, delivering cabins, and stuff like that. But there won't be construction, per se. It'll be more about clearing the camping lots of brush, excess trees, and stuff like that. However, some of these camping lots are REALLY not that desirable, as they're not level, or parts of the lot goes down ravines...stuff like that. So MAYBE they'd be hauling truck load after truck loads of dirt, to even out the lots.
We already have this now...but granted, it would probably be on a bigger scale.
Then there will be roads. That many new houses, Not new houses. Think small cabins. On camping lots, maximum square footage is like 700 Sq. Ft.
even if they're in a BnB model, will likely mean the roads will have to be upgraded. Will that fall on all the property owners through a POA or will the developer have to cover it? I don't know the answer to that. Since this is currently a camping area which sounds like it's somewhat primitive how will that impact that aspect? I don't know. But to clarify, the whole of Woodland Lakes isn't JUST camping lots. There are also multi purpose lots, and building lots. These developers bought camping lots. Camping lots ARE somewhat primitive, but made less so by getting electricity on your lot, if you want.
I'm sorry to say it but I have the feeling your little piece of paradise is going to become something entirely different. For reference, I've seen it happen here in Southern Maryland.
EDIT: One thing I forgot is that the new owners and their BnB model probably won't like their high dollar clients driving by groups of tents, camping trailers and 5th wheel campers.
Well, tough cookies for them I guess. That's what camping lots (which they bought) consist of. Although, their plan is to put small cabins on the lots.
Our lot is a camping lot (actually, we have 2 lots together)and consists of a cabin, and 2 camping trailers. We have electric, but we don't have septic or a well, so no running water. These potential renters would have the same restrictions we do. No septic, and no well.
You might want to reread the original post. These are existing lots around this lake. It is not a new development adding 50 NEW lots in one large group to the existing 100 that are already there. Air BnB rentals do not automatically mean high dollar luxury accommodations............
I didn't suggest that. I well understood that the developer had bought pre-existing lots. using the numbers given about half.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy
Well, tough cookies for them I guess. That's what camping lots (which they bought) consist of. Although, their plan is to put small cabins on the lots.
It depends on what the new owner wants to do. What, or who, controls the use of the overall property? A Property Owner's Association? A local government (County/Town?) Don't underestimate the weight a large owner can throw to get uses changed and minimum standards enacted. I don't know where you are but laws and regulations have been changing nationally over the last decade or so about what can be built without water and septic, especially if the property is on or has access to the grid. What was allowed in 2000 isn't in 2021.
Our lot is a camping lot (actually, we have 2 lots together)and consists of a cabin, and 2 camping trailers. We have electric, but we don't have septic or a well, so no running water. These potential renters would have the same restrictions we do. No septic, and no well.
You need to pay very close attention to any plans presented and go to every single meeting where they're discussed.
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