Do we underestimate and downplay how Great Sacramento weather really is? (San Diego: complex, hourly)

[mxcolin]

Average Temperatures Top 50 metros

• 1 - Miami–Fort Lauderdale–West Palm Beach, FL MSA: 70.7
• 2 - Tampa–St. Petersburg–Clearwater, FL MSA: 63.8
• 3 - Orlando–Kissimmee–Sanford, FL MSA: 63.2
• 4 - Los Angeles–Long Beach–Anaheim, CA MSA: 58.6
• 5 - San Diego–Chula Vista–Carlsbad, CA MSA: 58
• 6 - Phoenix–Mesa–Chandler, AZ MSA: 57.6
• 7 - Jacksonville, FL MSA: 56.1
• 8 - Riverside–San Bernardino–Ontario, CA MSA: 55.7
• 9 - Houston–Pasadena–The Woodlands, TX MSA: 55.5
• 10 - Austin–Round Rock–San Marcos, TX MSA: 54
• 11 - San Antonio–New Braunfels, TX MSA: 53.8
• 12 - Atlanta–Sandy Springs–Roswell, GA MSA: 52.9
• 13 - San Francisco–Oakland–Fremont, CA MSA: 52
• 14 - San Jose–Sunnyvale–Santa Clara, CA MSA: 51.8
• 15 - Fresno, CA MSA: 50.5
• 16 - Las Vegas–Henderson–North Las Vegas, NV MSA: 50.4
• 17 - Dallas–Fort Worth–Arlington, TX MSA: 49.5
• 18 - Sacramento–Roseville–Folsom, CA MSA: 48.9
• 19 - Birmingham, AL MSA: 47.1
• 20 - Memphis, TN-MS-AR MSA: 44.4
• 21 - Charlotte–Concord–Gastonia, NC-SC MSA: 44.2
• 22 - Raleigh–Cary, NC MSA: 43.9
• 23 - Virginia Beach–Chesapeake–Norfolk, VA-NC MSA: 43.9
• 24 - Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue, WA MSA: 42.4
• 25 - Portland–Vancouver–Hillsboro, OR-WA MSA: 42.1
• 26 - Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin, TN MSA: 41.7
• 27 - Richmond, VA MSA: 41
• 28 - Oklahoma City, OK MSA: 40.8
• 29 - Washington–Arlington–Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV MSA: 39.6
• 30 - Baltimore–Columbia–Towson, MD MSA: 39.4
• 31 - Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN MSA: 37.8
• 32 - Philadelphia–Camden–Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD MSA: 36.6
• 33 - New York–Newark–Jersey City, NY-NJ MSA: 36.3
• 34 - St. Louis, MO-IL MSA: 35.4
• 35 - Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN MSA: 34
• 36 - Boston–Cambridge–Newton, MA-NH MSA: 33
• 37 - Providence–Warwick, RI-MA MSA: 32.7
• 38 - Salt Lake City–Murray, UT MSA: 32.4
• 39 - Kansas City, MO-KS MSA: 32.2
• 40 - Indianapolis–Carmel–Greenwood, IN MSA: 31.6
• 41 - Pittsburgh, PA MSA: 31.5
• 42 - Denver–Aurora–Centennial, CO MSA: 31.4
• 43 - Cleveland, OH MSA: 30.8
• 44 - Hartford–West Hartford–East Hartford, CT MSA: 30.1
• 45 - Columbus, OH MSA: 30
• 46 - Detroit–Warren–Dearborn, MI MSA: 28.5
• 47 - Buffalo–Cheektowaga, NY MSA: 28.1
• 48 - Chicago–Naperville–Elgin, IL-IN MSA: 27.4
• 49 - Milwaukee–Waukesha, WI MSA: 26.4
• 50 - Minneapolis–St. Paul–Bloomington, MN-WI MSA: 21.1

[mxcolin]

Mean Minimum

• 1 - Miami–Fort Lauderdale–West Palm Beach, FL MSA: 48.7
• 2 - San Diego–Chula Vista–Carlsbad, CA MSA: 42.7
• 3 - San Francisco–Oakland–Fremont, CA MSA: 41.3
• 4 - Los Angeles–Long Beach–Anaheim, CA MSA: 41
• 5 - Tampa–St. Petersburg–Clearwater, FL MSA: 38.7
• 6 - Phoenix–Mesa–Chandler, AZ MSA: 37
• 7 - Riverside–San Bernardino–Ontario, CA MSA: 37
• 8 - Orlando–Kissimmee–Sanford, FL MSA: 36.3
• 9 - San Jose–Sunnyvale–Santa Clara, CA MSA: 33.3
• 10 - Fresno, CA MSA: 32
• 11 - Las Vegas–Henderson–North Las Vegas, NV MSA: 31
• 12 - Houston–Pasadena–The Woodlands, TX MSA: 29.7
• 13 - Sacramento–Roseville–Folsom, CA MSA: 29.7
• 14 - San Antonio–New Braunfels, TX MSA: 28.7
• 15 - Jacksonville, FL MSA: 27.7
• 16 - Austin–Round Rock–San Marcos, TX MSA: 27.7
• 17 - Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue, WA MSA: 26.7
• 18 - Portland–Vancouver–Hillsboro, OR-WA MSA: 25.7
• 19 - Dallas–Fort Worth–Arlington, TX MSA: 24.3
• 20 - Atlanta–Sandy Springs–Roswell, GA MSA: 22.7
• 21 - Virginia Beach–Chesapeake–Norfolk, VA-NC MSA: 22
• 22 - Birmingham, AL MSA: 20
• 23 - Memphis, TN-MS-AR MSA: 19.3
• 24 - Raleigh–Cary, NC MSA: 18.7
• 25 - Washington–Arlington–Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV MSA: 18.3
• 26 - Baltimore–Columbia–Towson, MD MSA: 18.3
• 27 - Charlotte–Concord–Gastonia, NC-SC MSA: 18
• 28 - Richmond, VA MSA: 15.7
• 29 - Philadelphia–Camden–Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD MSA: 15.7
• 30 - Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin, TN MSA: 15.3
• 31 - New York–Newark–Jersey City, NY-NJ MSA: 14.3
• 32 - Oklahoma City, OK MSA: 12.7
• 33 - Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN MSA: 11.7
• 34 - Salt Lake City–Murray, UT MSA: 10.3
• 35 - Boston–Cambridge–Newton, MA-NH MSA: 9.3
• 36 - St. Louis, MO-IL MSA: 8.7
• 37 - Providence–Warwick, RI-MA MSA: 8.7
• 38 - Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN MSA: 6.7
• 39 - Pittsburgh, PA MSA: 6
• 40 - Buffalo–Cheektowaga, NY MSA: 5.7
• 41 - Detroit–Warren–Dearborn, MI MSA: 5
• 42 - Indianapolis–Carmel–Greenwood, IN MSA: 4
• 43 - Columbus, OH MSA: 4
• 44 - Cleveland, OH MSA: 3.7
• 45 - Hartford–West Hartford–East Hartford, CT MSA: 3.7
• 46 - Kansas City, MO-KS MSA: 2.7
• 47 - Chicago–Naperville–Elgin, IL-IN MSA: 0.7
• 48 - Milwaukee–Waukesha, WI MSA: 0.7
• 49 - Denver–Aurora–Centennial, CO MSA: -4.3
• 50 - Minneapolis–St. Paul–Bloomington, MN-WI MSA: -8.3

[mxcolin]

So my conclusions are, that within the narrow band of people who've only ever been to SoCal, Florida, and Sacramento, the winters seem cold and wet, if that's your frame of reference then you're right. There are very few places in the country that have warmer, less cold and drier winters.

[Chimérique]

^^^^

No disagreements, but as usual you don't name your sources, just tell us, no need to use a link or an attachment, just spell it out. And, I doubt your numbers are for at least 150 year averages which is the average number of years data has been collected for Sacramento, not for just the last 10 or 20 years.

The temps table prove what I've said all along, Sacramento has a mild to very mild winter....but its still Wet.

Those number of days of rain for Sacramento occur in just 3-4 months not 12 months, Sacramento has a Wet Winter on average, except during extreme drought years.

Also, notice Sacramento is on average 10 degrees colder than SoCal in the winter, and Sacramento is closer in temp to Seattle/Portland than SoCal in the winter.

And there is the fact that the numbers presented in the tables above Do Not include the Whole Sacramento Metro such as the communities in the Sierra's which have colder temps and snowfall more like Salt Lake City & Denver.

Also, Sacramento is the coldest major metro in California, and one of the wettest.

And of all the major metros in California, Arizona, Oregon and Washington, the Sacramento Metro has the most distinction between Winter and Summer.

[mxcolin]

Dude, you have not been alive for 150 years. Last 25 years which is much more relevant to what the average person experiences today. This is all from NOAA. By your logic almost 95% of the country has wet winters. I know it’s relative, but how? The only logical conclusion is yet again “In comparison to SoCal”. All your points are around a tiny sliver of coastal Southern California. I get it. I lived there. No one is saying Sac is warmer than SoCal in winter. But let me assure you the rest of the country is nothing like SoCal on average. Outside of a handful of places in Florida, Phoenix and some spots in Texas that all get colder than Sac in the winter which cities am I missing that you’re alluding to? Can you name one? I’ve named around 40 out of 50 that are all either wetter or colder?????

[mxcolin]

Originally Posted by Chimérique

^^^^
The temps table prove what I've said all along, Sacramento has a mild to very mild winter....but its still Wet.

Those number of days of rain for Sacramento occur in just 3-4 months not 12 months, Sacramento has a Wet Winter on average, except during extreme drought years.

You started by saying Sacramento has a wet winter relative to the rest of the United States, you can see that's objectively wrong. If you're now changing your point to "Sacramento has a wet winter relative to the rest of the year in Sacramento itself", which is EXTREMELY dry, well of course it does, no one is arguing that point. If you're arguing that there is greater variation between our summer and winter than most West Coast cities, again, yes, no argument. But you started all this with an assertion that Sacramento is wet relative to the rest of the country, it is objectively not. 90% of the landmass of the country and 90% of the population of the country have wetter and colder winters. If you don't concede that point, please give some examples, for the love of God man, please.

[Chimérique]

I don't know how many times I have to say that Sacramento has a MILD winter. I don't need to name the cities that are warmer, you already know that..... cities in the whole state of Florida, the whole state of Hawaii, the Southwest (PHX, Tucson), parts of southern Texas, and some parts of the Gulf states.

But The Sacramento Metro also includes some very Cold and Wet communities in the Sierra Foothills and Upper Sierras which are colder and snowier than probably at least 65% of the other US metros. I know you don't want include those communities, granted it is a small % of the Sacto Metro population but it is still part of the Sacto Metro, with people living in those colder and wetter communities and its part of the Sacramento Metro Culture to partake in those wintry settings as we personally do, in part, because we have a cabin in Tahoe, as do other Sacramenatans.

I've always said Sacramento has a wet winter, period, because 60-95% of our annual rain comes in just 3-4 months.

An average of 18-20 inches of rain in 3-4 months is alot of rain, a very simple fact, very easy to understand that.

The average amount of rain across the country for the major metros across the nation during the winter months is 7-10 inches. Sacramento averages 18-20 inches during those 3-4 months. A wet winter.

USA Average - Winter months receive the LEAST amount of the annual rain
30 inches/12 months - 2.5 inches per month
2.5 inches x 3 months = 7.5 inches for 3 months of winter

Sacramento Average - Winter months receive the MOST amount of the annual rain - 60-95% of the annual rain
20 inches * 60-95% = 12-19 inches in 3-4 months

[mxcolin]

Again. I’ve shown you there is a tiny tiny piece of the country that has drier winters. You are not a plant or a weather station. It’s either raining or it’s not. The entire northeast, the entire Midwest except a sliver of the plains, the vast majority of the south except Florida and parts of Texas, the entirety of the PNW, Alaska, parts of Hawaii and even a good chunk of the South west. So I’m asking a genuine question, from the 90% of the country I’ve outlined that has wetter winters, where are you disagreeing on?

[Chimérique]

^^^^^

But you have not shown winter only rainfall data, nor the source, rather you have shown only annual rainfall. Most of the metros across the USA receive the LEAST amount of their rain in the winter months. It is the opposite with Sacramento (and Mediterranean & PNW climates) where almost all of our rainfall comes in just 3-4 months.

On another note, listing the mean temps is fine to an extent as the mean is an average of the low and high temps, but it does not fully capture how LONG it was hot or cold.

Looking at mode is an alternative way to do that as it looks at the temp for each hour of a 24hour period and gives the temp that occurs the most. So on a winter day with a high of 56F and low of 34F, the mean is 45F. But the mode would show you which temp of every hour that occurred the most during that 24 hour period. You could see which temp occurs the most for that day, let's say the mode was 35F because it was 35F for the most amount of hours on that particular day not 45F, the mean.

[mixxalot]

Best place would be winter home in south Florida and summer cabin in Idaho or Montana if I was wealthy and could afford to be independent retired.