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"there is no more Mormon area in the world than Provo"
Why did the LDS put all that in Provo, but put the Temple in SLC ?
There are 159 operating temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There are two in Provo. Temples are not locations for regular Sunday church services. Instead, they are locations where sacred ordinances are performed, weddings for example.
There will be a lot of naysayers. But consider this - would you move to an area that was intensely fundamentalist born again Christian, with over 95% of the public school kids fundamentalist Christian, with a fundamentalist Christian seminary right next door to the public school, and all the kids going back and forth between the seminary and the public school all day long for fundamentalist classes? And all the kids involved together in fundamentalist church activities after school and on weekends? And some of the kids trying to convert your kids to fundamentalist born again Christianity? And the town itself was founded around the enormous flagship university for fundamentalists? That's Provo. That's the areas that surround Provo, only it's LDS, not fundamentalist born again Christian.
For your kids' sake, you should look into other options. The commute from any areas that are only 50% LDS would be untenable. Cottonwood Heights is nice - but far. 45 minutes minimum when there is NO traffic - and the Wasatch front has a LOT of traffic. But if you're sure you can do the commute, I would say that you should look at the neighborhoods on the East side, close to the Wasatch, that are the commuter neighborhoods to the south of the U of Utah and hospital complex areas, perhaps from Cottonwood Heights and northwards up to Olympus Cove. The neighborhoods on the easternmost "benches" are nice, and north of Sandy, they're not entirely LDS, because of the professionals from the U, hospitals, and research facilities who choose to live there and commute northbound The commute will be hard on you, but your kids will be SO much happier than they would have been near Provo.
I think Latter-day Saint behavior and outlook is very different from that of most "born-again Christians." I think the comparison is very insulting actually. You do a major disservice to anyone perusing this forum who comes away with the impression that Latter-day Saints go around with bullhorns preaching from the Bible, protesting abortion clinics, and interfering with school curricula.
I think this family would be perfectly fine in Sandy or Draper. Depending on their expectations, they could find happiness in Utah Valley as well.
I think Latter-day Saint behavior and outlook is very different from that of most "born-again Christians." I think the comparison is very insulting actually. You do a major disservice to anyone perusing this forum who comes away with the impression that Latter-day Saints go around with bullhorns preaching from the Bible, protesting abortion clinics, and interfering with school curricula.
I think this family would be perfectly fine in Sandy or Draper. Depending on their expectations, they could find happiness in Utah Valley as well.
I agree with everything you've said, Hiruko. I found that post very insulting, as well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiruko
I think Latter-day Saint behavior and outlook is very different from that of most "born-again Christians." I think the comparison is very insulting actually. You do a major disservice to anyone perusing this forum who comes away with the impression that Latter-day Saints go around with bullhorns preaching from the Bible, protesting abortion clinics, and interfering with school curricula.
I think this family would be perfectly fine in Sandy or Draper. Depending on their expectations, they could find happiness in Utah Valley as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
I agree with everything you've said, Hiruko. I found that post very insulting, as well.
I think well-meant but bad choice of an example ... ?
My daffinishun of a "true" Latter Day Saint.
He/she is a radical, where "radical" means - Believe in something a little bit more than you do!
The opinion that LatterDay Saints constantly try to convert Non-Latter Day Saints comes more from the fact that the Missionary Effort is on the top of the to-do list and the Missionary Force is constantly changing.
One "set" (they are always in pairs) leaves and the next set is already there doing the same thing, over and over.
I am not sure if it is the local people who are constantly trying to do the conversion process except that it is stressed at the leadership level.
The missionary effort among the local people is NOT badgering others to believe the same thing.
It is not teaching their kids NOT to get along with non-LDS kids!
It is rather befriending the newcomer and make them feel welcome.
Where did "Love your neighbour" go?
Where did "Love unfeigned" go?
The problem part of getting along with LDS people is the fact that people are naturally scared of change and of other peoples thoughts and actions. It goes both ways!!
You can see that worldwide and not only at the religious level.
If the "newcomer" can have an open mind (without the preconceived idea that LDS people are weird etc ...) and can accept what LDS people are like, I think we can get along much better.
LDS people do need to change a bit in their interactions with non LDS people!!
Again, it goes both ways!!
If LDS people would just start by really understanding the Articles of Faith, it would be so much easier for any newcomer to get used to LDS people.
I think Latter-day Saint behavior and outlook is very different from that of most "born-again Christians." I think the comparison is very insulting actually. You do a major disservice to anyone perusing this forum who comes away with the impression that Latter-day Saints go around with bullhorns preaching from the Bible, protesting abortion clinics, and interfering with school curricula.
I think this family would be perfectly fine in Sandy or Draper. Depending on their expectations, they could find happiness in Utah Valley as well.
What's insulting? YOU mentioned bullhorns preaching, abortion protests, etc, not the poster. Actually I think the analogy was pretty apt and it's quite clear that many LDS are pretty thin skinned about the questions and challenges that arise about Utah culture. You could substitute Orthodox Jewish, Hindu, or whatever and have very similar concerns, namely the personal impact of being an outsider in a social monoculture. And of that there can be no doubt.
Agree with kletter1mann. The post that Hiruko was commenting on was innocuous and reasonable. To take offense in having another religion being used as an analogue to your religion while caricaturing and insulting the other religion is hypocritical. Each religion seems most normal to the insiders while the same people sometimes see a caricature of the other religions. That’s the case here.
What's insulting? YOU mentioned bullhorns preaching, abortion protests, etc, not the poster. Actually I think the analogy was pretty apt and it's quite clear that many LDS are pretty thin skinned about the questions and challenges that arise about Utah culture. You could substitute Orthodox Jewish, Hindu, or whatever and have very similar concerns, namely the personal impact of being an outsider in a social monoculture. And of that there can be no doubt.
I think the thing that both Hiruko and I found insulting was this paragraph:
Quote:
But consider this - would you move to an area that was intensely fundamentalist born again Christian, with over 95% of the public school kids fundamentalist Christian, with a fundamentalist Christian seminary right next door to the public school, and all the kids going back and forth between the seminary and the public school all day long for fundamentalist classes? And all the kids involved together in fundamentalist church activities after school and on weekends? And some of the kids trying to convert your kids to fundamentalist born again Christianity?
I realize that Utah County is pretty heavily LDS and I wouldn't encourage any non-LDS Person to move there, particularly with school-aged kids. But the picture was an exaggeration, pure and simple. Yeah, LDS kids attend seminary. It's an non-credit elective and is attended during one of seven periods during the school day. It's not as if there's this huge migration of 95% of the studentbody, leaving a handful of odd ones out. The same kids who take Seminary also take art, music, or any one of many other electives taught. Most LDS kids nowadays have non-LDS friends, too. And remember, not all LDS are "active" or "practicing." That's a fact non-LDS people love to point out whenever there is a mention made of how quickly the LDS Church is growing. To listen to non-LDS people refute the growth of the Church, you'd think there were hardly any active Mormons left. Finally, I really question the 95% figure. I'd like to see the source for that one.
I realize that Utah County is pretty heavily LDS and I wouldn't encourage any non-LDS Person to move there, particularly with school-aged kids. But the picture was an exaggeration, pure and simple. Yeah, LDS kids attend seminary. It's a non-credit elective and is attended during one of seven periods during the school day. It's not as if there's this huge migration of 95% of the student body, leaving a handful of odd ones out. The same kids who take Seminary also take art, music, or any one of many other electives taught. Most LDS kids nowadays have non-LDS friends, too. And remember, not all LDS are "active" or "practicing." That's a fact non-LDS people love to point out whenever there is a mention made of how quickly the LDS Church is growing. To listen to non-LDS people refute the growth of the Church, you'd think there were hardly any active Mormons left. Finally, I really question the 95% figure. I'd like to see the source for that one.
Exactly. I did not caricature or degrade another religion at all. I reject stereotypes of anyone, but I know the perception that the previous poster was trying to create. It was blatantly part of an effort to frighten the original poster from relocating to the area.
The original poster asked about the public schools and community in Sandy and Draper, and they specifically requested that this thread not turn into "a Mormon-bashing thread." I think that there is little to worry about concerning faith diversity in the Canyons District. I know many people, both LDS and of other backgrounds, who currently live in the area or were products of the public schools to know that there is a diversity of background and that none have felt isolated because of their own.
I have a friend that is a ski instructor, Democrat, and an 'Irish Catholic' who moved his family from the Chicago area to Sandy some years ago. He told me he has no idea who is and who is not a Latter-day Saint on his cul-de-sac. It's a non-issue. Likewise, a friend of mine (late 20s) who grew up in Cottonwood Heights and went through Brighton has told me that most of the student body acted like membership in the Church was a 'badge of shame.' So much for the idea of 'Mormon cliques' dominating the social scene.
I also know a successful real estate agent selling luxury properties that lives in Highland with their family. They told me that while LDS culture is influential, they've never felt excluded for not being affiliated with the Church, neither have they felt isolated for being Latino. I do not enjoy the environment of Utah County. It's too homogeneous, and there is not as much to do there as there is in Salt Lake and Park City.
I also know a well-to-do family without Utah roots that started a family business in Orem/Provo that has grown substantially. They live in an upscale neighborhood along the Provo River and have both of their children enrolled at Wasatch Academy. They have a wet bar in their house. They've lived in Orem and Provo as long as I've been alive, and they have also told me that religion is a non-issue in business and daily life.
I think the thing that both Hiruko and I found insulting was this paragraph:
I realize that Utah County is pretty heavily LDS and I wouldn't encourage any non-LDS Person to move there, particularly with school-aged kids.
Why not?
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