SAPD Cop is fired after opening car door and shooting startled teen driver (Cuero: living, military)
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No, it is not. But there is one thing that most police shootings have in common: failure to follow the officer's instructions. Almost every high-profile shooting victim in recent memory would still be alive if they had decided to make their protest in court and not on the street. I've been in a couple of situations where cops treated me poorly for no good reason, but I complied, acted properly, and I always walked away a free (and living) man.
No, it is not. But there is one thing that most police shootings have in common: failure to follow the officer's instructions. Almost every high-profile shooting victim in recent memory would still be alive if they had decided to make their protest in court and not on the street. I've been in a couple of situations where cops treated me poorly for no good reason, but I complied, acted properly, and I always walked away a free (and living) man.
Screw that. I don't want to live in a police state. I prefer that we start actually holding cops accountable for violating the rights of citizens.
Cops kill about 100 people a month in the US, a little over 1,200 a year on average. The number of cops killed in the line of duty was unusually high in 2021, totaling 73 total for the year.
Important to note though, of those 73 cops killed in the line of duty, 59 of them were from traffic accidents, not attacks. Cops are crappy drivers and, they rarely wear their seatbelts because it is hard for them to get in and out of their cars with those unnecessary tactical vests when they put on their seatbelts so... a lot of those deaths are the result of them breaking the law and not wearing their seatbelt.
We need to get away from this idea that cop lives are more important than citizen lives and they need to be held accountable for the injuries and deaths they cause. Someone not obeying a cop or choosing to run from a cop is NEVER a reason to use a weapon.
This is allegedly a free country but, we're becoming a police state more and more every day when we don't hold these thugs with badges accountable. The only thing shocking about this senseless shooting of an unarmed citizen was that the cop was fired. I will be shocked if he is ever actually convicted.
Screw that. I don't want to live in a police state. I prefer that we start actually holding cops accountable for violating the rights of citizens.
Cops kill about 100 people a month in the US, a little over 1,200 a year on average. The number of cops killed in the line of duty was unusually high in 2021, totaling 73 total for the year.
Important to note though, of those 73 cops killed in the line of duty, 59 of them were from traffic accidents, not attacks. Cops are crappy drivers and, they rarely wear their seatbelts because it is hard for them to get in and out of their cars with those unnecessary tactical vests when they put on their seatbelts so... a lot of those deaths are the result of them breaking the law and not wearing their seatbelt.
We need to get away from this idea that cop lives are more important than citizen lives and they need to be held accountable for the injuries and deaths they cause. Someone not obeying a cop or choosing to run from a cop is NEVER a reason to use a weapon.
This is allegedly a free country but, we're becoming a police state more and more every day when we don't hold these thugs with badges accountable. The only thing shocking about this senseless shooting of an unarmed citizen was that the cop was fired. I will be shocked if he is ever actually convicted.
A few things:
(1) I also don’t want to live in a police state.
(2) Cops who commit crimes in the line of duty should be appropriately punished. If jail time is warranted, that’s where they belong. Police should be held to the highest standards of behavior….citizens need to have confidence that the people we entrust to enforce the law will do so in good faith and without prejudice.
(3) Of the 1200 people cops kill each year, how many are clearly and without doubt justifiable shootings? I suspect a large number. If you consider the millions and millions of police/civilian interactions every year, the number of bad actors (cops) just doesn’t seem to be statistically large. That doesn’t mean bad cops shouldn’t be investigated and punished…they absolutely should. I don’t believe we are anywhere close to living in a police state.
(3) Of the 1200 people cops kill each year, how many are clearly and without doubt justifiable shootings? I suspect a large number. If you consider the millions and millions of police/civilian interactions every year, the number of bad actors (cops) just doesn’t seem to be statistically large. That doesn’t mean bad cops shouldn’t be investigated and punished…they absolutely should. I don’t believe we are anywhere close to living in a police state.[/quote]
I disagree with a couple of points here.
First, we pay cops to provide a service to the community and RARELY is the community best served by the police killing someone. RARELY. Now, the cops clearly think it is in their best interest but definitely not in the best interest of those that employ them.
Second, the ONLY time it is appropriate for a cop to use deadly should be in protecting one or more members of the community. I don't even think it is appropriate for cops to use deadly force to protect their own lives. Force, sure but, minimum force necessary.
Third, the number of cops held accountable for being bad actors is low, not the number of cops being bad actors. People often like to say most cops are good, only a few bad apples and that is a patently false assessment. If most cops were good, there wouldn't be any bad cops. The good ones would hold the bad ones accountable but they don't because they are afraid to which makes them ALL bad.
There is this general misconception in the public that we have to bow down to police and everything the police do is correct/legal/ethical. The reality is, cops are trained to lie, they are trained to do unethical things in order to accomplish their goals, they are trained to do things that are illegal because all scales tip in their favor. We talk about holding law enforcement to a higher standard but we do the exact opposite. Cops always get the benefit of the doubt and they are always held to the bare minimum standard and rarely held accountable for serious dereliction of their duties.
I will wrap this up with this... many people think of showing respect as treating someone like a human being. Many people also think of showing respect as something we do for those in authority. Where we have a disconnect, particularly with cops is, too many people have come to accept that if you don't respect a cop's authority, it is perfectly acceptable for them to not respect you as a human being.
Second, the ONLY time it is appropriate for a cop to use deadly should be in protecting one or more members of the community. I don't even think it is appropriate for cops to use deadly force to protect their own lives. Force, sure but, minimum force necessary.
This is one of the most odd statements I have ever seen. A few Uvalde school cops would definitely agree with the last sentence of your statement above I guess.....
(3) Of the 1200 people cops kill each year, how many are clearly and without doubt justifiable shootings? I suspect a large number. If you consider the millions and millions of police/civilian interactions every year, the number of bad actors (cops) just doesn’t seem to be statistically large. That doesn’t mean bad cops shouldn’t be investigated and punished…they absolutely should. I don’t believe we are anywhere close to living in a police state.
I disagree with a couple of points here.
First, we pay cops to provide a service to the community and RARELY is the community best served by the police killing someone. RARELY. Now, the cops clearly think it is in their best interest but definitely not in the best interest of those that employ them.
Second, the ONLY time it is appropriate for a cop to use deadly should be in protecting one or more members of the community. I don't even think it is appropriate for cops to use deadly force to protect their own lives. Force, sure but, minimum force necessary.
Third, the number of cops held accountable for being bad actors is low, not the number of cops being bad actors. People often like to say most cops are good, only a few bad apples and that is a patently false assessment. If most cops were good, there wouldn't be any bad cops. The good ones would hold the bad ones accountable but they don't because they are afraid to which makes them ALL bad.
There is this general misconception in the public that we have to bow down to police and everything the police do is correct/legal/ethical. The reality is, cops are trained to lie, they are trained to do unethical things in order to accomplish their goals, they are trained to do things that are illegal because all scales tip in their favor. We talk about holding law enforcement to a higher standard but we do the exact opposite. Cops always get the benefit of the doubt and they are always held to the bare minimum standard and rarely held accountable for serious dereliction of their duties.
I will wrap this up with this... many people think of showing respect as treating someone like a human being. Many people also think of showing respect as something we do for those in authority. Where we have a disconnect, particularly with cops is, too many people have come to accept that if you don't respect a cop's authority, it is perfectly acceptable for them to not respect you as a human being.[/quote]
I dunno….do the math. How many police interactions with “bad guys” occur every year? How many are resolved with no force? How many with force that results in less than death? How many in death? I have no idea what these figures are, but unless presented with evidence otherwise, I think the vast, vast majority are in the first two categories. Deaths involving officers get a lot more attention via social media, the newspapers, etc. As they should.
I think the police need to respond with appropriate force….not less than should be applied that may result in danger to themselves or the public; not more than required to address situations that risks harming a suspect beyond what is required to resolve the situation safely to all parties. I think one has to be very careful in second guessing police action that doesn’t “work out”. Pretty easy to armchair quarterback.
Having said that, I’m not in favor of looking the other way every time there is a police shooting. Cops behavior and actions need to be evaluated….if they did something wrong they shouldn’t be given a pass. Nor should one assume they all are inherently bad actors, liars, or racists.
I don't want to live in a police state. I prefer that we start actually holding cops accountable for violating the rights of citizens.
None of us want to live in a police state, and anyone who pays attention to the news knows that cops are held accountable for their actions. There are many former cops behind bars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspray
Cops kill about 100 people a month in the US, a little over 1,200 a year on average.
Now do some research and tells us how many of those are suicide by cop or were done in order to save someone's life. HINT: It's most of them. The "unarmed person who was just minding his own business and was shot by a cop" incidents are probably in the single digits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspray
The number of cops killed in the line of duty was unusually high in 2021, totaling 73 total for the year.
Important to note though, of those 73 cops killed in the line of duty, 59 of them were from traffic accidents, not attacks. Cops are crappy drivers
That is an absolute falsehood. This website says that 647 officers were killed in the line of duty in 2021. Getting rid of the extraneous stuff like Covid deaths, I still count 89 deaths from violence (6 assault, 62 gunfire, 4 stabbed, 17 vehicular assault). We've had 60 deaths from those causes so far in 2022.
Second, the ONLY time it is appropriate for a cop to use deadly should be in protecting one or more members of the community. I don't even think it is appropriate for cops to use deadly force to protect their own lives. Force, sure but, minimum force necessary.
It would appear that you see cops' lives as somehow less important than the people they are sworn to protect. Guess what? They're normal people with families and children, just like the people they protect.
My son-in-law is a cop in another state, and last year he shot and killed someone. That someone (white, upper-middle-class, prominent member of his church) shot at my son-in-law as he was trying to deescalate the situation. What is the "minimum force necessary" when someone is shooting at and trying to kill you? The person's family didn't question the shooting, as they knew he'd done wrong, and that the police were justified in their response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bspray
The reality is, cops are trained to lie, they are trained to do unethical things in order to accomplish their goals, they are trained to do things that are illegal because all scales tip in their favor.
Prove it, or it's all just hot air. Find a police academy that trains their officers to lie and commit crimes, then have them shut down. It shouldn't be difficult, right?
Last edited by DerpyDerp; 10-09-2022 at 05:16 PM..
None of us want to live in a police state, and anyone who pays attention to the news knows that cops are held accountable for their actions. There are many former cops behind bars.
No, anyone that pays attention to the news knows that 99.9% of the time, cops are not even charged because either the police unions prevent it (the internal investigation found no wrong doing) or the prosecution refuses to bring charges because of professional courtesy.
Cops are almost never even disciplined. Internal investigations are an absolute joke and almost always performed by the Police Union and not internal affairs.
There are plenty of naive boot lickers out there that think cops can do no wrong, until they are on the wrong end of a cop's ego.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerpyDerp
Now do some research and tells us how many of those are suicide by cop or were done in order to save someone's life. HINT: It's most of them. The "unarmed person who was just minding his own business and was shot by a cop" incidents are probably in the single digits.
I am not here to do your research for you but, no, it isn't mostly 'suicide by cop or done to save anyone's life, even a cop's. Most people murdered by cops are killed because they are fleeing and they aren't even armed. The fact that someone is fleeing is NEVER a reason to shoot them. NEVER.
Cops are under the misguided impression that their lives are more important than everyone else's and it is ok to kill them if they can they can make any mild justification of feeling threatened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerpyDerp
That is an absolute falsehood. This website says that 647 officers were killed in the line of duty in 2021. Getting rid of the extraneous stuff like Covid deaths, I still count 89 deaths from violence (6 assault, 62 gunfire, 4 stabbed, 17 vehicular assault). We've had 60 deaths from those causes so far in 2022.
Yes, A LOT of cops died last year because of COVID. This is largely linked to the fact that police officers, in large numbers, avoided vaccination. Dying from COVID is NOT being killed in the line of duty though, it is simply dying while being a cop. It turns out 61 were deaths by gunfire but, some of those were friendly fire. 19 were ambush attacks and 59 were due to vehicle crashes. The point remains, cops kill more than 1,200 a citizens a year while less than 100 cops are killed by citizens.
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