Making downtown shopping less touristy (Dallas, San Antonio: apartment, condos, Home Depot)

[LiveUrban]

Downtown shopping is fun, don't get me wrong. However most shops sell touristy items. Sure, there is the Rivercenter Mall, but they don't have such chain stores as HEB, Barnes and Nobles, Ross, etc. that would make downtown more convenient for people who live there.

I would like to see some day in our downtown a place people can walk around and shop in non touristy areas such as this town in Scotland: (Our culture just seems to fast for this at the moment. Europeans work a lot less than we do and have time to shop in a fun manner as so).



and this Home Depot in Manhattan, New York:




To me, shopping in a dense atmosphere is much more appealing than suburban shopping:


It make life a lot more enjoyable. It may be hard to understand for those of you who have shopped at suburban strip malls all of your life. However, I believe a change in shopping developments would bring more culture to our city. Besides, people come to a city to see it's downtown. Not to see it's suburbs. Suburbs are the same EVERYWHERE in the U.S.



What are your thoughts on this? I am by no means trying to downplay our beloved city. However, our development habits should change. Also, do any of you think that HEB should build a store downtown? It could be a type of flagship store and really spark a lot more people to move there. It's the least HEB could do for our support of the company throughout the years.

[djw]

Originally Posted by LiveUrban

What are your thoughts on this? I am by no means trying to downplay our beloved city. However, our development habits should change. Also, do any of you think that HEB should build a store downtown? I think it could be a type of flagship store and really spark a lot more people to move there.

I'm not sure I agree wholeheartedly, as I see the value in our "touristy" shopping downtown - that's where the tourists go and why would they want to see a Home Depot on the River Walk?
BUT, I do understand that folks living downtown would like something close by that could be reached by foot or bike.
As for your HEB comment - isn't there a Central Market down there somewhere that is sort of a flagship for HEB? Not sure that would spark me to move there...but yes, living in an Urban enviroment would require shops and essentials nearby!

Interesting post.

[rd2007]

Tourists are this cities bread and butter and eating is one of the three fundamentals of basic survival.
I will admit that Manhattan Home Depot is pretty cool, though.

[Bo]

Businesses build where the customers are. Right now the customers downtown are mostly tourists, so that's who downtown businesses are geared toward serving.

The mix of retail won't tilt from tourist to local shopping until there are enough shoppers living downtown to justify the switch. As more condo projects are completed, retailers may look at downtown as a desirable place to locate the type of stores you seek

[Chaka]

eh.
I'd agree I'd like to see more shops geared towards residents (not necessarily taking away the touristy stuff, because that IS a big draw for downtown), but I can do without Target, Ross and all the other big box stores. I'd like to see more independent stores, but am realistic that independents are just not going to survive (altho I think an independent bookstore could survive downtown). I'd prefer more interesting stores though, like some designers/boutique type places.

San Antonio doesn't really need another Ross, even downtown. While we DO need a "real" grocery store, that needn't be HEB. It can be a small store, but something that caters to residents rather than tourists. The few stores downtown now are really aimed at the downtown work crowd and tourists. That said, I finally saw the new Delivery Market and it's a significant improvement over their old store on S. Alamo (which was basically chips - with some decent beer and wine). Would love to see a butcher and fish monger. One can dream, eh?

As for Central Market, it's on Broadway in Alamo Heights. I guess if you live outside 1604 that may seem 'downtown', but it requires a drive. The general idea of urban living is that you don't require a own a car to access the items for daily living, like groceries. It's great that it's not that far, but it's not downtown.

I do think that most of the needed retail will come in time. No one's willing to take a gamble until the population in the downtown core increases.

[LiveUrban]

I just realized how many grammar and spelling mistakes I made in my first post. Sorry about that.

Chaka, I would love to see such independent shops however downtown should be geared more towards locals. Lets face it, the average San Antonio family would rather shop at chain retailers as they have the means to keep their prices lower. Independent shops would be a draw to some, but wouldn't make downtown a shopping destination for all.

I understand why some would want to keep chains out of downtown, however they wouldn't be hurting any independent or tourist shops. They don't necessarily have to be located on the Riverwalk or near the Alamo.

[BigDogsTX]

The downtown grocery store is the key to making the downtown area viable in my opinion. After doing a bit of searching I founds some interesting articles regarding the growth of small grocery store chains. It seems the emerging trend is smaller stores located in neighborhoods which I think is wonderful, this USA today article reflects my feeling of massive grocery stores taking too much time to shop at (Not everyone wants to choose from a wall of ketchup!)

Like shoppers' budgets, grocery stores shrink - USATODAY.com

I think the Wal-Mart Marketplace concept it mentions is especially interesting because it already has a major presence here in SA with grocery distribution centers and could easily open some smaller stores (say downtown?)

The other small grocery store chain I have noticed grabbing attention lately is Aldi, which is moving into Dallas next year...

ALDI - Shopping Smarter

Why is this especially interesting? You Trader Joe's freaks will like this, Aldi Owns Trader Joes and typically wherever Aldi Has opened, TJ's soon follows because they use the same distribution centers...

http://industry.bnet.com/retail/2008/04/29/aldi-hits-texas-and-florida-is-trader-joes-on-the-way/ (broken link)

It seems HEB is resisting this trend by closing its smaller neighborhood stores is favor of supercenter like HEB Plus stores.

[OzzyRules]

There needs to be more people residing downtown before that happens.

[LiveUrban]

Great articles BigDogsTX!

I remember traveling around Europe and shopping at little grocery stores for food. Saved me a lot of money by buying groceries instead of going out to eat everyday.

Grocery stores don't have to cater only to residents. Tourists can go there too.
I think there is enough of a market downtown. With the Vistana, Vidorra, and Alteza Condos (at the upper floors of the new Grand Hyatt), I think a small grocery store will do just fine.

[miche111e]

I think that is a problem you'll find in a lot of urban areas in the the USA -- no supermarkets, etc. in the down town areas. I've always had a problem with that. Where do people buy groceries when they live down there? They either have to drive or ride a city bus to a grocery store that's miles away? I think it would be great for people (and the environment!) if there were more amenities within walking distance (especially for people who can't afford a car or don't have one for some reason).