KB homes sued in SA! (again?)

[rigas]

Originally Posted by banker

You are correct. They do individual lot tests in my community as well - and as some have said - can't go very deep due to the fact that the limestone in some areas of my community is exposed with absolutely no topsoil.

I expect more and more builders are taking soil samples in an effort to combat quality issues - but not all do. That was one of our criteria when building...did the builder engineer the slab for that particular lot...not just for the community.

yes a lot of the builders are begining to do this here as well. (maybe not as much yet) but no production builder engineers "per lot". they will take the "average" so to speak and design all the foundations the same. this will change per section but i dont know of a single production builder who even engineers smaller then a section. not even down to the street so your street being 5 streets from my street will have the same foundation design.

to clarrify this, i have seen some places where foundations have had to be designed per lot by production builders but not due to soils reports but due to topography (ie large slope, large rocks.) my wife and i where looking around stoneoak about 5-7 yrs ago and noticed some homes which had to have their garages "jackhammered" into the side of a semicliff with the actual home built above it. similar to a basement.

[texdav]

Actually its really very easy to stalise a home in clay soils;its called unreaming and done all the time now.Cost more but is well worth it. The tension type slab often has problems because it has so many things that must be done right and is still subject to shifting. Anything can stiff with time.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by rigas

chaka
the pier and beam you speak of (on the 100 yr old home) is stil lconsidered a pier and beam foundation. the "piers" where made of wood as concrete was not the most easily use material 100 yrs ago in south texas. when i speak of the foundation of your home, i am speaking of the subfloor, the "joists" (as you called them which is a fair representation, not exactly correct but fair enough). the wood "beams" running under your floors. not the plywood or slat boards but the beams they are sitting on is your foundation.

Thanks for clarifying what you're talking about. I couldn't figure out what you were referring to when you kept talking about a slab with a P&B.

Originally Posted by rigas

now while yes your home is still standing after 100+ yrs on this foundation, this does not mean the foundation is solid or has not failed. a common misconception (besides the one that i know how to spell) is that a failed foundation means the house is falling down or can not be livable. this is just ot true. a failed foundation can be anything from unlevelness to complete collapse. the repairs you had done would constitute a failed foundation. again just because a home is still standing DOES NOT mean its foundation is good.

I'm not quite convinced a typical slab foundation will last 100+ years on this soil either, but I won't be around in 100 years to tell you. I do know A LOT of people in San Antonio that have had to repair slab foundations on much younger houses.

Originally Posted by rigas

foundation so make it pier and beam (this contrary to popular belief is not just a crawlspace foundation)

Didn't you say earlier that what I described should be referred to as a 'crawlspace foundation?" I'm really not trying to argue, just get clarity, since this is a topic near and dear to my heart

Originally Posted by rigas

so to my point, why spend an extra 20k for something that is not needed? why require an expensive foundation when a less expensive foundation is more then enough foundation? in other words, why spend $50,000 more on a pier slab in stone oak where the rock is so hard and so thick it is not ever going to move just because you might need or be better off with a pier slab on the south east side?

You probably wouldn't. The key is to determine which foundation type works best for your location. I thought that was the whole argument?

Originally Posted by rigas

and as for the freeze thaw, this is a bit different then expansive clay, it has completely different effects on concrete. construction companies and ready mix providers do things far and away different in those areas then any place else. not just foundations, but bridges, streets and roads, driveways, side walks everywhere.

The general concept is the same: the ground is not fixed. It shifts, it expands and contracts (either due to soil type +drought/flood cycle) or freeze/thaw cycle.

[rigas]

chaka,
1st, homes these days are not realy meant to last that long. we have almost reverted back to the "namadic" type life style where everything is semi temporary. also a lot of the "younger homes" you are seeing need repair where built in more of a "transition" period in construction. in other words people where really trying new things but ther was little oversite. PT slabs got a really bad wrap back then because of shady people not doing things the right way with noone to make them do it right.

about crawlspaces, not all crawlspaces are pier and beam, and vise vesa. you can have one without the other. example, we did a crawlspace a few months ago that had no piers. it was nothing more then a 2 foot thick exterior wall with a few "passthrus" for water to pass in and out. then it had a door for access. 2 weeks ago we did a pier and beam foundation which was more like a conventional (all rebar) slab on grade with piers under it. (this is the most common pier slab inthe houston area)

You probably wouldn't. The key is to determine which foundation type works best for your location. I thought that was the whole argument?

this was my arguement all along. in reference to joes comment that a pier and beam is THE best way to go but people dont want to pay the builder for it. this statement is just not true which is why i commented in the 1st place.

while the general concept is similar it is not the same. expansive clay heaves and falls, and freeze thaw will also to an extent but for totally different reasons and in totally differnet ways. frozen earth "heaves" but it is more like a rock pushing really hard on your concrete. it is rarely even and can come from different directions. clay is more like a wet spunge swelling, it is not a solid mass, it will fill the cracks and voids and generally pushes in a single direction (mostly up). frozen earth acts like a grinder and breaks singular areas where clay heaves and lifts large areas causing larger areas to break.

example freeze thaw causes a driveway to crack in smaller pieces ussually on corners and ends. clay heaving lifts the walk and causes it to crack at weakpoints all the way across. almost like lifting half a sidewalk causing it to break in the middle.

this is a very slimplified version of the 2. there are so many factors in a freeze thaw area that even the mix designs of the concrete are completely different then we would use here.

[joe123456]

Originally Posted by rigas

chaka,


this was my arguement all along. in reference to joes comment that a pier and beam is THE best way to go but people dont want to pay the builder for it. this statement is just not true which is why i commented in the 1st place.

If you go back and look at my posts... pier and beam foundations are typically best for EXPANSIVE CLAY SOILS. A lot of what I have read states that, but I am not a structural engineer, so by no means an expert.

[Mike78613]

11-pages of headaches, lol

[tejano2828]

you people make it seam like "ALL BUILT HOMES" except for KB are built like a fortress. Yah I'm sure none of you all have ever had problems with your builders...regardless of who they are. 3 members of my family have had problems, big problems, with builders in San Antonio one on 1604 and 281 area and no it wasn't KB home.

[TexasRedneck]

KB isn't the only bad builder out there - but they certainly lead the pack. I made the mistake of owning one in the 80's. Oldest son currently owned one (he's a slow learner) - and the neighborhood is rapidly deteriorated into a place you don't want to walk, thanks to all the folks that they managed to get financed that quickly discovered they couldn't make the mortgage payments and walked, and now management companies are snappin' them up and renting 'em cheap. Try neighbors that mow their yard.....once a year.