My City sure has changed (Mesa: how much, new house, camps)

[LuvSouthOC]

Originally Posted by snpdragr

That's fair enough.

I'm just not convinced that 20/30/40 years you would see a higher rate of return of wallets. I'm not saying that the problem hasn't become worse, but I like to see data (which unfortunately doesn't exist) before coming to such a conclusion. The closest thing we have is crime data (which is generally showing things are safer/better now) but that's probably not a good surrogate for "good samaritan" behavior.

Oh, yeah "facts" are so convincing. Any data compiled is biased with a desire to make crime look less common. I suppose anecdotal evidence from those of us who are familiar with the old San Diego mean nothing to you...

It is unquestionably worse.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC

Oh, yeah "facts" are so convincing. Any data compiled is biased with a desire to make crime look less common. I suppose anecdotal evidence from those of us who are familiar with the old San Diego mean nothing to you...

It is unquestionably worse.

Apparently, if you hide in your house it isn't


I don't think anyone thought we wouldn't eventually get here but I'm bummed it was so quickly.

[Jenkay]

Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC

Oh, yeah "facts" are so convincing. Any data compiled is biased with a desire to make crime look less common. I suppose anecdotal evidence from those of us who are familiar with the old San Diego mean nothing to you...

It is unquestionably worse.

No, It's not. I've lived in (and STILL live in) the central neighborhoods of San Diego for 40+ years. I remember when Downtown was a sh**hole, full of junkies and drunk sailors. I remember when Little Italy was a place you went to buy Heroin, and North Park was the "ghetto". Most of the nice apartments in Golden Hill used to be crack houses. The entire central part of San Diego has improved SIGNIFIGANTLY over the decades.

[snpdragr]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Those statistics just go back a few decades to 1993. It is "safer" now, but would you let a 10 year old child walk anywhere in any city in SD County at 9PM or even later as we did as kids and with no supervision? In the 60's it was a virtual non issue and got worse. It may be safer now, but it isn't that safe. It takes a longer view to see the problem than just over 2 decades.

I agree the data in the article I listed doesn't go back that far. I wasn't a child of the 60s -- I was running around unsupervised in the 70s/80s. But here's a graph of the homicide rate in US from 1950-2014 if you want to go back further. Basically we're at 60s levels and much lower than when I was a kid.

The second graph is data from Sandag ( http://www.sandag.org/uploads/public...1935_19012.pdf ) . It basically shows we're at a 35 year low in violent crime.

By objective measures, things are really good now.

[SanSav]

I think all of us with at least an elementary grade level of education would find the rejection of facts, absurd.

[Jenkay]

Originally Posted by snpdragr

I agree the data in the article I listed doesn't go back that far. I wasn't a child of the 60s -- I was running around unsupervised in the 70s/80s. But here's a graph of the homicide rate in US from 1950-2014 if you want to go back further. Basically we're at 60s levels and much lower than when I was a kid.

The second graph is data from Sandag ( http://www.sandag.org/uploads/public...1935_19012.pdf ) . It basically shows we're at a 35 year low in violent crime.

By objective measures, things are really good now.

PSSSSSH objective data doesn't mean anything. Anecdotal evidence is the only way to quantify vague feelings of how much better the "good old days" were.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Jenkay

PSSSSSH objective data doesn't mean anything. Anecdotal evidence is the only way to quantify vague feelings of how much better the "good old days" were.

It's been well know violent crime has been on the down turn in San Diego for a while, which is good.

You also have to be careful on how you interpret the data. If you go hood by hood not all look so cheery.
Take Balboa park for example. They've only recorded crime stats for a number of years and these have gone up ( I'll use property and crime index). I'd be interested to see what stats look like for, say, El Cajon from the 80s until now by zip and hood.

Balboa Park
property/crime index
2015 678.76 834.21
2014 875.01 1,035.01
2013 745.01 820.01 4
2012 472.07 505.59
2011 639.67 692.74
2010 500.00 531.3
2009 502.24 551.57
2008 183.92 212.15
2007 195.04 220.70
2006 NA

The people committing the crimes in an area like downtown moved during gentrification. I highly doubt they quit being criminals because of their zip code.

El Cajon property crime (can't find older)
2010 2013 2014 2010-2014 2013-2014
El Cajon 16% 21% 27% 11% 6%

[bloom]

trumpf's america:
A moment of levity from The New Yorker

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by bloom

trumpf's america:
A moment of levity from The New Yorker

Your president elect

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by snpdragr

I agree the data in the article I listed doesn't go back that far. I wasn't a child of the 60s -- I was running around unsupervised in the 70s/80s. But here's a graph of the homicide rate in US from 1950-2014 if you want to go back further. Basically we're at 60s levels and much lower than when I was a kid.

The second graph is data from Sandag ( http://www.sandag.org/uploads/public...1935_19012.pdf ) . It basically shows we're at a 35 year low in violent crime.

By objective measures, things are really good now.

Oh I do believe murders have dropped. What we are talking about are the more common things that caused locked doors on homes and cars and that make it unsafe for kids to run around unsupervised. Violent crime is open to question to a degree as the standards have changed over the years, but it is more the things that make it "unsafe" not things making it more violent. This gets even worse at the beach where crime goes up with cars broken into, etc. In the 60's we didn't even lock our cars at the beach. Now you better. I would not worry about being murdered, but having my home or car broken into is a different issue.