Reoccuring Theme: Too expensive, Low paying jobs! (San Diego, Fresno: apartment, foreclosure)

[mini_cute]

North County Snobbery? *scratches head*

All I know is that I wake up every day and I drive through my beautiful neighborhood on my way to work and I am so incredibly grateful for what I have. Of course I want more- we always want more. After living a much harsher life in Spanish-Harlem NYC, I realize how good I have it now. And I do care about the rest of the county and our nation, that's why I voted for Obama!

[NYSD1995]

Originally Posted by Olivenhain

C'mon, there's plenty of prosperity to go around. My wife has been a stay at home mom since we had our first of three, 24 years ago.

You're kidding me right? If you were 30 years old making 100k a year... you sure as heck wouldn't be living in Olivenhain.. you'd be up to your eyeballs in in a condo in Carlsbad or a tract home in 4S like everyone else I know.

We used to have a poster in here named Socketz from North County and he had a great little observation: that there are 2 San Diegos - 2 guys, both making 100k - one bought his house 10 years ago and is sitting pretty, the other bought his 2 years ago and is sweating bullets.

100k means maybe 7k/mo after taxes... that just doesn't go far enough in San Diego... not when a nice house is going to run you 4k/mo minimum. Living hand-to-mouth on a six figure income is an exaggeration... but only slightly.

It's not a San Diego thing. Same problem exists in many of the coastal cities now. I can't control everything, but I can control where I live. I can trade off weather for a lower cost of living.. but that doesn't mean I can live in NYC either. A lot of the people I grew up with on Long Island are gone now, they mostly moved to North Carolina or Florida to buy their homes.

Originally Posted by SD Observer

Some of the posters are definitely exhibiting that North County snobbery that I have encountered and dislike. They seem not to care about the rest of the county. But everything is connected to everything else and we all will sink if there is not enough prosperity to go around.

I wouldn't call it "North County snobbery" but I think that disdain for people less successful than yourself is a trait shared by many in the conservative and wealthy areas of this country. My concerns are not unique, they have been shared by thousands, but of course, I'm the whiner, loser, etc...

[CrissCT]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

You're kidding me right? If you were 30 years old making 100k a year... you sure as heck wouldn't be living in Olivenhain.. you'd be up to your eyeballs in in a condo in Carlsbad or a tract home in 4S like everyone else I know.

We used to have a poster in here named Socketz from North County and he had a great little observation: that there are 2 San Diegos - 2 guys, both making 100k - one bought his house 10 years ago and is sitting pretty, the other bought his 2 years ago and is sweating bullets.

I agree with you so much on this. You completely described our San Diego lifestyle. While we certainly weren't poor, we lived in 4S ranch and paid "a lot" for our house (which we still own by the way). We had friends that made less than my husband but because they bought their homes 10-15 years ago, lived in relative mansions.

My husband had a great job (yes he is educated, has his masters in engineering) but by moving back east, he got a promotion, a much bigger salary and we have a beautiful home in the country on 4 acres of land, and we are in Connecticut which is not exactly cheap either. And while I loved my kid's school in San Diego, spending per child here is DOUBLE what it was in San Diego and the difference is obvious.

I also felt the quality of doctors in San Diego was very low compared to other parts of the country I have lived and I attribute this to not being able to attract doctors because of the high cost of living with relatively lower salaries.

Yes there are other parts of the country with high costs of living, but usually the salaries are higher too, that does not seem to be the case in San Diego.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy06

Every thread, same story...which is why I'm curious.


(1) How many of you are college educated? Any advanced degrees??

(2) What's your profession?

(3) Define low paying. Relative to what??

(4) Define expensive. Relative to where??

I'm an RN and, generally, California RN's make good money but, San Diego has always been an exception. Mostly because nursing unions were slow to organize there. No unions = less money.

However, San Diego is one of those towns like San Luis Obispo. RN's typically don't make much money there either ... but people want to live there for the quality of life. So ... they make it work anyway.

[socketz]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

We used to have a poster in here named Socketz from North County and he had a great little observation: that there are 2 San Diegos - 2 guys, both making 100k - one bought his house 10 years ago and is sitting pretty, the other bought his 2 years ago and is sweating bullets.

Long time Sass. I thought you would have joined me here in the Bay Area by now :-)

I see we are still having iterations of the "Work to Live" vs. "Live to Work" discussion. One which seems to change based on where you are in your life and the respective choices you need to make which best suit you and your family long term.

First off, to the individual that that implied this guy is not someone that loves San Diego, take a minute and review many of his posts over the past year. I don't believe that he loves the city any more or less, but like many of us prior, he has reached a point in his life where he has hit a wall with regards to growth. His newer posts are now a reflection on some of the frustrations one encounters when you hit the wall and have to make the decision to stay in a place you love and exist as one of the area's thousands of 'under-employed', as opposed to re-locating to further develop yourself personally/professionally; It's a tough decision, and I don't think there is a right or wrong answer that will fit everyone.

I think the point that needs to be re-emphasized here is that San Diego only very recently became so extrodinarily over-priced (2000 was still reasonable based on salaries, which remain unchanged even today - 'Sunshine Tax'). The region has never been a powerhouse for high paying jobs (thank you Qualcom for CDMA, which brought some handset development to SD), but with the recent 'exuberence' in housing, I know people that were making more on their home in a year than they made at their job. This created an enormously inflated wealth effect, which allowed many to ignore the simple facts:

-Median family income in San Diego is 59k (compare to nieghbor Irvine at 108k) and remains relatively unchanged for many years
-Median home prices north of 550k (more than doubled in 5 years)
-Primarily service based economy which does not create alot of high paying jobs

So now that reality has set in and everyone is back to using fundamental economic indicators to decide where they would like to spend their lives, the property values in San Diego continue to slide in an effort to find a ground in what we now characterize as the new economy/economic reality:

10 worst real-estate markets for 2009 - San Diego (8) - FORTUNE

Does this make San Diego a less of a desirable place to live, for many it does. However, many make the choice to deal with these shortcomings and make the best of their life in the city with what they have to work with....again, these are personal choices and there is no right/wrong answer.

[dweej]

Originally Posted by Olivenhain

C'mon, there's plenty of prosperity to go around. My wife has been a stay at home mom since we had our first of three, 24 years ago. You guys think there's some ridiculous "north county snobbery"? How about east county white trash? Just as ridiculous, isn't it...

Fact remains, anyone can be successful here, IF they choose to, and have it in them to make it happen. Yep, if you rely on a "salary" I.E; someone else to make it for you, you probably won't get to the upper percentage.

Yes, the key here is that you did it 24 years ago. The area was much more affordable then. We, in our late 20's and early 30's, just now starting out with young kids, even though we love many aspects of the area, can't make it work without compromising on some major aspect of our lives. The older generation has a very hard time truly appreciating this fact because they don't have to live it.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by dweej

Yes, the key here is that you did it 24 years ago. The area was much more affordable then. We, in our late 20's and early 30's, just now starting out with young kids, even though we love many aspects of the area, can't make it work without compromising on some major aspect of our lives. The older generation has a very hard time truly appreciating this fact because they don't have to live it.

EACH generation has it's own obstacles to overcome that each succeeding generation will never fully understand.

I remember hearing my elders bemoan the fact that their kids never will have the chance to buy a home like they did with mortgage rates of 12 to 15%... I paid 12.5% in 83 and felt darn fortunate to get it. Unemployment then, as a percentage of population, was second only to the Depression of the 30's

Funny how my generation, who had it "So Hard" in their parents eyes, live lifestyles few of their parents could have imagined

My point is... it is easy to look back and see only the good and miss the bad.

[socketz]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Unemployment then, as a percentage of population, was second only to the Depression of the 30's

Let's wait and see what 2009 has in store. Inflation was out of control in the 80s, but many other elements of the global economy were functioning properly.

I'm fairly certain that if we continue to see the types of anemic forecast we are seeing now, that 2009 will be historic with regards to unemployment and GDP contraction.

In a recent CEO survey conducted in Silicon Valley, over 50% of the CEOs surveyed said that they expect layoffs in the 1st and 2nd quarters and have no plans on hiring anyone, even to satisfy attrition. Almost all companies that also had planned to go public this year are letting their S-1s expire, so the hope of creating new jobs, new capital, etc. is dimisihing rapidly as well.

This news is from silicon valley....an area that over the past 20 years has led the US in jobs creation.

Ultimately, amidst these types of global economic conditions, I'm not sure that the availibility of credit nor the Fed promising to securitize mortgages will have much effect on the housing market, so prices will continue to fall in order to find the buyers. Affordibility in certain markets will essentially adjust itself to acomodate realistic affodibility levels in the 20-30% range.

[NYSD1995]

Originally Posted by socketz

In a recent CEO survey conducted in Silicon Valley, over 50% of the CEOs surveyed said that they expect layoffs in the 1st and 2nd quarters and have no plans on hiring anyone, even to satisfy attrition. Almost all companies that also had planned to go public this year are letting their S-1s expire, so the hope of creating new jobs, new capital, etc. is dimisihing rapidly as well.

I have a relative at Qualcomm, she says that they are not laying off but are doing a hiring freeze for 2009. The company I work for is doing pretty much the same.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

I have a relative at Qualcomm, she says that they are not laying off but are doing a hiring freeze for 2009. The company I work for is doing pretty much the same.

My team was cut in half which means we'll have to prove our workload is rediculous and other depts will have to wait and wait...... and wait for information they need.