San Diego People/Neighborhoods

[sav858]

Originally Posted by FellowTraveler

Actually I have been to both. Neither of them are particularly bad and neither of them are "downtown", which is what we are talking about. San Francisco has one of the most attractive and liveable downtowns of any city in North America. But the belief that the homeless problem in and of itself means SF's downtown is less "upscale" than SD's is perfectly illustrative of the dull, suburban, provincial mindest of San Diegans, and Southern Californians in general. The SoCal mindset is that things should look aesthetically perfect, even as they rot from within.

Yet that comment is coming from a BAY AREA NATIVE who has never lived in Southern CA so I don't see how that is illustrative of some imagined SoCal "mindset" that you seem to have stuck in your head. Of course on the flip side one can easily make some argument about how Northern Californians, particularly San Franciscans, like to ignore the obvious social problems in their own city b/c of how pretty some restored Victorian home is and how the view of the Golden Gate bridge makes up for all the social problems in SF on top of claiming to be the most socially progressive people on earth while having the same social problems as everywhere else.

[FellowTraveler]

Originally Posted by sav858

Yet that comment is coming from a BAY AREA NATIVE who has never lived in Southern CA so I don't see how that is illustrative of some imagined SoCal "mindset" that you seem to have stuck in your head. Of course on the flip side one can easily make some argument about how Northern Californians, particularly San Franciscans, like to ignore the obvious social problems in their own city b/c of how pretty some restored Victorian home is and how the view of the Golden Gate bridge makes up for all the social problems in SF on top of claiming to be the most socially progressive people on earth while having the same social problems as everywhere else.

You don't have to live in Southern California to have the SoCal mindset. That mindset exists wherever someone believes it is preferable to build a freeway that destroys neighborhoods so that it is easier to drive to an outlet mall in the middle of nowhere to shop at dull chain stores and surround oneself with bland suburbanites, rather than make an effort to revitalize cities and rediscover urban living. Southern California is way behind the curve on urbanism and it is at serious risk of being left behind as other American cities increase density and rejuvenate their downtown neighborhoods. Southern California went further than any other region in promoting sprawl and that is a mistake for which it is paying dearly.

It is of course your right to dislike San Francisco. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But ask people in America and around the world whether they would rather visit or live in San Francisco or Southern California and the overwhelming majority of them will say San Francisco. It isn't even a close call.

Southern Californians do not seem to understand that the rest of the country has a relatively low opinion of their area. Our good friends in, say, Connecticut would be laughing at the notion that we are even having a debate about this.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by FellowTraveler

Southern Californians do not seem to understand that the rest of the country has a relatively low opinion of their area. Our good friends in, say, Connecticut would be laughing at the notion that we are even having a debate about this.

Native S cal people don't care what the rest of the US thinks. The transplants may.

[mlarsen23]

In survey after survey San Diego is selected as one of the most desirable places to live above San Francisco. The last Harris survey I read on this topic picked San Diego as the number two place people would like to live (NYC was #1). A recent survey that was I believe by Forbes also picked San Diego as #2 after Denver.

So really it's demonstrably not true that the rest of the country has a low opinion of the area - in fact, more people from the rest of the country would choose to move to San Diego than San Francisco all else being equal.

As far as homelessness goes, I think San Francisco is overly tolerant of homelessness. This has nothing to do with how "upscale" the city is, but it is a valid criticism. SF should take a page from New York City's book and do more to ensure that people who are homeless have access to housing, and then do more to discourage begging and harassment by homeless people.

I agree with FellowTraveler in that it is a weak criticism of a city that in many respects has much more to offer than San Diego. But FellowTraveler appears not to have been to much of the country between the coasts if he thinks that Southern California is the capital of sprawl. As sprawly as it is, visit most of Texas and Florida and you will appreciate how much worse it can be. Southern California has far more to offer in terms of urban living than most of those states already, and will probably do more sooner to improve its urban environment.

[whynot1986]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Native S cal people don't care what the rest of the US thinks. The transplants may.

LOL, just like the native Americans... uh, scratch that... the transplants... uh, scratch that... the colonists and their descendants in the US don't care what the rest of the world thinks. That worked for a while too...

[sav858]

Originally Posted by FellowTraveler

You don't have to live in Southern California to have the SoCal mindset. That mindset exists wherever someone believes it is preferable to build a freeway that destroys neighborhoods so that it is easier to drive to an outlet mall in the middle of nowhere to shop at dull chain stores and surround oneself with bland suburbanites, rather than make an effort to revitalize cities and rediscover urban living. Southern California is way behind the curve on urbanism and it is at serious risk of being left behind as other American cities increase density and rejuvenate their downtown neighborhoods. Southern California went further than any other region in promoting sprawl and that is a mistake for which it is paying dearly.

That is not a "SoCal mindset" at all and you can find that in pretty much every corner of this nation, including all over the Bay Area. I don't know why people like you choose to blame SoCal for that when it occurs everywhere, even in those little urban northeastern cities where the first typical planned suburban community was invented (Levittown). The Bay Area stretches over two hours north to south from Santa Rosa to Santa Cruz and all the way east to Stockton, if that's not sprawl then what is?

How is Southern CA "behind on urbanism"? There are many new urbanists/smart growth projects that have occurred and are planned. The Los Angeles Metropolitan area is the DENSEST metro area in the nation, denser than both the Bay Area and NYC Metro area. San Diego has done a great job redeveloping its downtown and urban neighborhoods, including having Hillcrest named one of the top 10 urban neighborhoods in the country by the American Planning Association. You really have no clue what you're talking about here and are just telling yourself what you want so you can believe this negative stereotypical image of what you think SoCal and its people are about.

So apparently you hate low density sprawl and prefer denser urbanism according to what you have said here. So please EXPLAIN this statement you previously made:

Originally Posted by FellowTraveler

I agree with you and CESpeed that high density development is not necessarily preferable. I am one of those transplants from the east (originally from Toronto) who greatly enjoys low-density development and the distinct neighborhoods that L.A. offers. I also hate winter and the lack of sunlight in northern latitudes, so that also drew me here. I just wish that we had a somewhat better transit system. And you are right to point out that low-density sprawl is not inconsistent with transit, as transit is what enabled the sprawl in the first place.

So you hate this "SoCal mindset" with regards to development yet "enjoy" it the same time, you're contradicting yourself there.

It is of course your right to dislike San Francisco. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But ask people in America and around the world whether they would rather visit or live in San Francisco or Southern California and the overwhelming majority of them will say San Francisco. It isn't even a close call.

Where did I say I disliked San Francisco? I was born and raised in the Bay Area and love the city but that doesn't mean I can't see what is wrong with it, unlike you. And you have that typical smug Bay Area mentality where you think the whole world loves that place and wants to live there but that is pretty BS. Maybe you're not aware but San Francisco doesn't exactly have the best reputation with a lot of people.

Well some surveys have asked Americans where they want to live and SAN DIEGO tops SF in all of them:

Pew Research Center: For Nearly Half of America, Grass Is Greener Somewhere Else
Harris Interactive | The Harris Poll - The Coasts Are Tops as California and New York City Are Most Popular Places People Would Choose to Live

Also San Diego and Los Angeles are more popular tourist destinations and receive more visitors every year than SF.

America's 30 Most Visited Cities - ForbesTraveler.com (http://www.forbestraveler.com/best-lists/most-visited-us-cities-slide.html?partner=aol - broken link)

Sorry but stats don't really back up your false claims of SF being more popular than Southern CA and this BS notion the rest of the nation dislikes SoCal.

Southern Californians do not seem to understand that the rest of the country has a relatively low opinion of their area. Our good friends in, say, Connecticut would be laughing at the notion that we are even having a debate about this.

People like you don't seem to understand the rest of the nation and world doesn't adore the Bay Area like many of their delusional residents think and that the snobby, pretentious attitudes of places like CT, the Bay Area, and Northeast turn the entire nation off. Yes there will always be people with negative stereotypical PERCEPTIONS of Southern CA and they will tell themselves what they need to to convince themselves their right, which is what you seem to be doing here.