San Francisco vs. Overland Park vs. Manhattan (Hayward, Union City: transplants, loan)

[Ether Bunny]

My wife and I are both physicians. After 4 years of med school, 1 year of internship, 6 years of residency, and 1 year of fellowship we're FINALLY looking for real jobs and a place to settle down, raise a family, etc.

Although it's very exciting to know that we're approaching the finish line in terms of training, the prospect of choosing a place to live and raise a family is surprisingly difficult.

Here's the dealio...

I grew up in Overland Park, KS, and so I know the area very well. My family still lives there. My wife, on the other hand, grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area (Union City, actually) and her family lives out there still. She went to medical school and did her internship in Manhattan, NYC, a city that she absolutely loves.

At this point we've narrowed our potential spots to three locations: Overland Park, San Francisco, and Manhattan. We have discussed this issue thoroughly and we still can't figure out which place is the best option. We both love San Francisco and Manhattan. I like Overland Park and I know it's a great place to raise a family but my wife (understandably) has some misgivings about the place.

Some other info:
1. We have approximately $500,000 of educational debt.
2. We plan on having two kids and will likely have one kid by the time we actually move.
3. Our combined income first year out should be roughly $500-600K.

If you guys were in our shoes, where would you go?

[18Montclair]

Congratulations on finishing school!

Well speaking for these parts, the Bay Area is undergoing billions of dollars worth of hospital expansions all over the region including several huge projects in SF proper as we speak and Im sure that will translate to many new physicians being hired.

Just a thought.

Also, since you have no children yet it seems like you might enjoy the culture and vibrancy of Manhattan and SF more than Overland Park(which is a fine place btw), at least at this stage in your lives.

[rkwalton]

You might want to talk to doctors though. (Not saying that there aren't any here, there might be.)

My endo is at one of the big medical centers in NYC. I'm sure that's great for his career. However, he's from California and I could sense that he'd not mind moving back. However, having seniority at a big NYC university affiliated medical center is a great reason to stay.

There are quite a few good medical centers in the Bay Area, so if you're targeting this area, find doctors who are here and ask them what's life like for them. I can't say. I know my current endo was here when I was a law student, stayed while I was living abroad and traveling around the globe, and now that I'm back he's my endo again.

I think with your incomes the question of children and education won't be a problem. You'll be able to afford private schools if you need them or move to an area with good schools.

Good luck.

[capoeira]

Originally Posted by Ether Bunny

Some other info:
1. We have approximately $500,000 of educational debt.
2. We plan on having two kids and will likely have one kid by the time we actually move.
3. Our combined income first year out should be roughly $500-600K.

If you guys were in our shoes, where would you go?

First choice: Kansas City

Second choice: New York

Last Choice: San Francisco

With your income I would avoid super high income tax California. There are 3 new initiatives to raise the state income tax even higher. Expect a top rate at 11% or more. NYC is even worse with their city income tax of 3.7% plus the NY state income tax of almost 9%.

In contrast the tax environment in Kansas is improving. Their governor is proposing to drop their top rate to under 5%. The very low cost of living in KC plus the ~$2,000/month income tax savings will make the student debt much easier to deal with.

[mayorhaggar]

It really depends on what kind of place you want to live in. Those three areas are very different from one another. I think you'll need to consider things like the weather in each place, things you can do in the great outdoors (California is great for this), what your budget would be like in each place, and what kinds of cultural stuff you care about--museums, etc. Because they're so different and it's going to come down to your budget and your taste, I think you'll need to make the decision instead of having random people on the internet make the decision for you. If it was a choice between somewhere kind of dumpy like Hayward and somewhere nice like Walnut Creek it would be an easy choice for us, but I think this one's on you.

I would not ever want to live in suburban Kansas but maybe that is your kind of thing. Living on 500-600k you should certainly be able to get a nice house in a nice suburb with a great school district in the Bay Area, probably in the suburban NYC area too. That 500k in loan debt is pretty damn high though.

[80skeys]

Okay I don't know anything about Overland Park but I can't imagine it could be any more different than either Manhattan or San Francisco. I personally would eliminate Overland Park right off the bat because it sounds really boring.

The main difference between San Francisco and Manhattan, as far as urban life goes, is size. San Francisco is basically a miniature - very scaled down - New York City. That's a surface-level analysis.

It's a tough choice between one or the other. With San Francisco you have much better weather and easy access to the amazing, beautiful outdoors (mountains, Bay, ocean, deserts, lakes, wine country, Redwoods, etc). With San Francisco you have more laid-back, less hectic surroundings.

With Manhattan, you have a much larger social base, more diversity of cultures, more arts and theater, and simply much more of the urban experience. In Manhattan, your circle of friends can be quite large within a small area (a definite plus in my opinion.) A lot of people in NYC are New Yorkers born and raised, which I think is good, as opposed to many San Franciscans which are transplants. However in Manhattan you have crappy winters and humid summers and its very difficult to get out of the city into the outdoors and if you like mountains (I mean real mountains) you'd better forget about it.

If I were to move from the Bay Area to NYC, it would be for the social experience and the greater access to the art scene.

[DMenscha]

Since you're still young, why not try someplace neither of you have ties to? Your skills are easily transferable.

[andyadhi01]

Originally Posted by Ether Bunny

My wife and I are both physicians. After 4 years of med school, 1 year of internship, 6 years of residency, and 1 year of fellowship we're FINALLY looking for real jobs and a place to settle down, raise a family, etc.

Although it's very exciting to know that we're approaching the finish line in terms of training, the prospect of choosing a place to live and raise a family is surprisingly difficult.

Here's the dealio...

I grew up in Overland Park, KS, and so I know the area very well. My family still lives there. My wife, on the other hand, grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area (Union City, actually) and her family lives out there still. She went to medical school and did her internship in Manhattan, NYC, a city that she absolutely loves.

At this point we've narrowed our potential spots to three locations: Overland Park, San Francisco, and Manhattan. We have discussed this issue thoroughly and we still can't figure out which place is the best option. We both love San Francisco and Manhattan. I like Overland Park and I know it's a great place to raise a family but my wife (understandably) has some misgivings about the place.

Some other info:
1. We have approximately $500,000 of educational debt.
2. We plan on having two kids and will likely have one kid by the time we actually move.
3. Our combined income first year out should be roughly $500-600K.

If you guys were in our shoes, where would you go?

I can only tell you that most hospitals in SF are very run down, old and seems to be of poor quality. Compared to say Texas the medical equipments and facilities here are lagging far behind. So you should probably look into the hospitals carefully to investigate which place will offer you greater job satisfaction and better environment to work.