Beyond Chron: Oakland, A tale of two cities (Los Angeles, San Jose: buy, theater)

[Stephen1110]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Not when the top score is 1000. LOL.

The current grade for California's largest cities, based on the API scores YOU POSTED are as follows:

San Diego C+
San Francisco C+
San Jose C+
Long Beach C
Sacramento C
Los Angeles C-
Fresno C-
Oakland C-

Isn't it grand when we view things through their proper perspective?

Wow, all 8 of California's largest cities are in the C (700) range. Interesting! Looks like an insignificant difference in quality of education across the state.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Stephen1110

Wow, all 8 of California's largest cities are in the C (700) range. Interesting! Looks like an insignificant difference in quality of education across the state.

Pointing this out was my pleasure. They woefully underestimate Oakland and pay for it when stats are actually revealed.

Furthermore, Piedmont which is BY FAR the richest city in the urban bay area appears to thrive and flourish despite being surrounded by terrible Oakland. LMAO.

Average Household Income by Quintiles, 2011 Census Estimate
Piedmont, CA
Top 5% $1,257,022
Top 20% $662,044
Top 40% $286,303

[Natural510]

Now a dude gets wet up on 3rd street (JLS) in broad daylight. I wonder what Mayor Quan is doing to put more officers on the street?

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by Stephen1110

Wow, all 8 of California's largest cities are in the C (700) range. Interesting! Looks like an insignificant difference in quality of education across the state.

So would you send your kid to a school with an API of 700 or 770?

Also let's not forget, Oakland has the lowest graduation rate out of LA, San Jose, S.F, and San Diego at 58.9%. So it's not as insignificant as you are trying to paint it.

[ssmaster]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Well then thank goodness dual-income FAMILIES in Oakland do very well compared to the average household which are can mean everything including a single person.

Average Family Income, Husband and Wife BOTH work, 2011 Census Estimate:
Oakland, CA $139,474

Average Household Income by Quintiles, 2011 Census Estimate
Oakland, CA
Top 5 % $386,088
Top 20% $209,700
Top 40% $86,745

Also, you 3 should all hop on the next plane to Miami and set up a soup kitchen there if you think Oakland has income disparity problems:

Median Household Income, 2011
Oakland, CA $50,500
New York, NY $49,461
Boston, MA $49,081
Portland, OR $47,033
Chicago, IL $43,628
Baltimore, MD $38,721
Miami, FL $28,536
Cleveland, OH $25,371

Otherwise...thanks for playing, better luck next time.

this is a good point median household income includes seniors and disabled on social security and households on public assistance. parsing out working families gives significant information

[Malloric]

Originally Posted by Stephen1110

Wow, all 8 of California's largest cities are in the C (700) range. Interesting! Looks like an insignificant difference in quality of education across the state.

Yes and no. Most of us who criticize Oakland for what it is also criticize San Francisco, Sacramento, and so on for what they are. This is a thread about "Oakland, A tale of two cities." It could equally as well be a tale about "Sacrament, A tale of two cities," except then it would be a much shorter tale. The bad isn't as bad, and the good isn't as good. 20% of Sacramento isn't 1%ers, because... well it's not that attractive.

Look at Portland vs Oakland;
Oakland: $48,000 median income, 4/10 schools, violent crime 10/10.
Portland: $47,000, 6/10 schools, violent crime 6/10.
Seattle: $54,000, 6/10 schools, violent crime 6/10.
San Francisco: $70,000, 6/10 schools, violent crime 7/10
San Jose: $80,000, 6/10 schools, violent crime 5/10.
Los Angeles: $47,000, 4/10 schools, violent crime 7/10.
Sacramento: $46,000, 5/10 schools, 8/10 violent crime.
Fresno: $42,000, 4/10 schools, 6/10 violent crime.

It's pretty simple. When one looks at facts, Oakland is the worst city in the state. It's got the worst schools, the highest crime rate, abysmally high dropout rate. It's really just simple. It's the worst of the bunch. That doesn't mean for the "1%" who make up 20% of Oakland's population it's not a great place to live. By isolating yourself in enclaves of the wealthy as Montclair has done, you're not experiencing the crime. When you make $200-300k a year, you don't have to worry about the bad public schools as you can afford to pay the $35k for private schools. Hence why it's a "tale of two cities." The Oakland is great, look at the new Italian restaurant that just opened sentiment is testament to just how selective people can be in what facts they chose to look at and which they chose to sweep under the rug.

[ssmaster]

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

So would you send your kid to a school with an API of 700 or 770?

Also let's not forget, Oakland has the lowest graduation rate out of LA, San Jose, S.F, and San Diego at 58.9%. So it's not as insignificant as you are trying to paint it.

This graduation rate does not include students who live in oakland but attend private,parochial (cheaper),charter(free) or suburban schools(free)
as this article points out 40% of oaklands highest achieving elementary students go this route.they still have high achievement and still live in oakland but are not in your data as they are not in ousd
Top students fleeing Oakland public schools - SFGate

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by Malloric

Yes and no. Most of us who criticize Oakland for what it is also criticize San Francisco, Sacramento, and so on for what they are. This is a thread about "Oakland, A tale of two cities." It could equally as well be a tale about "Sacrament, A tale of two cities," except then it would be a much shorter tale. The bad isn't as bad, and the good isn't as good. 20% of Sacramento isn't 1%ers, because... well it's not that attractive.

Look at Portland vs Oakland;
Oakland: $48,000 median income, 4/10 schools, violent crime 10/10.
Portland: $47,000, 6/10 schools, violent crime 6/10.
Seattle: $54,000, 6/10 schools, violent crime 6/10.
San Francisco: $70,000, 6/10 schools, violent crime 7/10
San Jose: $80,000, 6/10 schools, violent crime 5/10.
Los Angeles: $47,000, 4/10 schools, violent crime 7/10.
Sacramento: $46,000, 5/10 schools, 8/10 violent crime.
Fresno: $42,000, 4/10 schools, 6/10 violent crime.

It's pretty simple. When one looks at facts, Oakland is the worst city in the state. It's got the worst schools, the highest crime rate, abysmally high dropout rate. It's really just simple. It's the worst of the bunch. That doesn't mean for the "1%" who make up 20% of Oakland's population it's not a great place to live. By isolating yourself in enclaves of the wealthy as Montclair has done, you're not experiencing the crime. When you make $200-300k a year, you don't have to worry about the bad public schools as you can afford to pay the $35k for private schools. Hence why it's a "tale of two cities." The Oakland is great, look at the new Italian restaurant that just opened sentiment is testament to just how selective people can be in what facts they chose to look at and which they chose to sweep under the rug.

I'd agree that Oakland is one of the worst-managed cities in the state. The worst city? Not by a long shot. If you'd rather live in Fresno, Stockton, Modesto, San Bernardino, etc. then be my guest. As for me, Oakland is one of three large cities in California I'd actually want to live in for a variety of reasons that numerous posters on this thread have demonstrated time and time again they'll never understand. To put it another way, I'd take a low-crime neighborhood in East Oakland over a "good neighborhood" in Piedmont, Orinda, etc. any day... That sounds like crazy talk to some of you but frankly I feel much more comfortable in the former than the latter. The former also has a diversity of experience, thought, food, people, etc. that will never exist in the latter.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by Malloric

It's really just simple. It's the worst of the bunch. That doesn't mean for the "1%" who make up 20% of Oakland's population it's not a great place to live. By isolating yourself in enclaves of the wealthy as Montclair has done, you're not experiencing the crime. When you make $200-300k a year, you don't have to worry about the bad public schools as you can afford to pay the $35k for private schools. Hence why it's a "tale of two cities." The Oakland is great, look at the new Italian restaurant that just opened sentiment is testament to just how selective people can be in what facts they chose to look at and which they chose to sweep under the rug.

I'm going to disagree with you here. It's not sweeping it under the rug. We KNOW we have problems, but they aren't going to get better by pissing, moaning and wringing our hands. And they REALLY aren't going to get better by not supporting local businesses and bringing in more.

We have a large amount of poor people and poor people are "takers". Poor people use the vast amount of services and pay the least amount of taxes. That's a huge drain on the city. Without business coming in and taxes being paid and money being spent to generate more business and more taxes, Oakland loses.

And then there's the culture of violence that we've had for decades. I fervently believe the only way to get rid of that is to make the area hostile to it. Which means more people have to move into Oakland -- even scary Deep East, to change the environment. Which means the violents ones have to move out to find a friendlier place. Because they aren't going to see the light and give up violence. Remember the old allegory of the scorpion and the alligator, and the old saying of the leopard can't change it's spots. There's a reason people say those things -- because generally it's true.

But neighborhoods can and do. If more good people move in, things will clean up and get better. Even in MY neck of the woods, things have gotten better -- albeit slowly. I haven't seen a drugged up person walking the streets in ages. My homeless population has also dwindled. Houses are selling again... property values are starting to come up a little.

So sorry -- if people want to celebrate Oakland, I think it should be celebrated. Not dragged and dropped off into a abyss. We count here. We vote here. We pay taxes here. We're hanging on. We know EXACTLY what the score is....

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

We know EXACTLY what the score is....

Well, admittedly, some of you do. But there are a select few who don't.