What caused East Palo Alto to turn into a dump? (Oakland: apartment complexes, loan)

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by Tomlcsc

Agreed.

It's always funny to hear these types of conversations go anywhere except personal responsibility to explain the cause of poverty and disparity in certain communities.

Exactly. If where I lived was full of gang shootings everyday, you bet your dollar I'd be pushing the politicians to do something about it.

[Tomlcsc]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

Are we going to revert to the old saws about how the poor want to be poor, and the unemployed don't want to work?

Certainly not.

But lets put it this way: would you ever come across someone's beautiful front yard and say "Gee, you're so lucky to have such a beautiful front yard?" No. That would be ridiculous, because everybody knows that someone took some considerable time and effort to make that garden what it was.

In the same light,I believe that personal life choices have consequences. Nobody made the residents of EPA have the lifestyle and crime rate that they do. I'm glad to see that it is improving now by the way.

[Jonatton Yeah?]

Originally Posted by Tomlcsc

Certainly not.

But lets put it this way: would you ever come across someone's beautiful front yard and say "Gee, you're so lucky to have a beautiful front yard?" No. That would be ridiculous, because everybody knows that someone took some considerable time and effort to make that garden what it was.

In the same light,I believe that personal life choices have consequences. Nobody made the residents of EPA have the lifestyle and crime rate that they do. I'm glad to see that it is improving now by the way.

That's a very strange analogy. And I don't think anyone doesn't think personal life choices don't have consequences. I think that's pretty obvious and universal. I mean, if you run around screwing everything without protection I can't imagine you're going to get much sympathy when you end up with the clapper. But I don't think those who live in impoverished areas have as much autonomy as, say, me or you. And to say, "just go to your politician" is being very naive. Keep in mind that many areas, like EPA, have a large migrant population including, I would assume, a large undocumented population; hardly a politically engaged group (unless you count that bellend SF Supe Avalos). This isn't meant to open up the floodgates of an immigration reform discussion. It's just pointing out the reality. Furthermore, situations that we all deal with on a day to day basis (putting food on the table, troublesome family structures, general stress) are exacerbated under the conditions of poverty.

[Tomlcsc]

You're absolutely right man.

I guess I was painting with a pretty broad stroke to say that all the problems with EPA are lifestyle choice related but I still certainly think that plays a pretty big part.

I'm sure there's quite a few people living in EPA right now who are just looking for cheap housing in the Bay Area, and I completely understand that.

Friends?

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Think About It!

Places are "dumps" because of the people there.

I was just talking about this today, many middle-class areas in the Bay Area and California in general look like the slums in various cities in Texas, Colorado, Florida, Utah (examples). It's the people that make an area seem like a dump or ghetto etc.

[Jonatton Yeah?]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

I was just talking about this today, many middle-class areas in the Bay Area and California in general look like the slums in various cities in Texas, Colorado, Florida, Utah (examples). It's the people that make an area seem like a dump or ghetto etc.

I would imagine it also has to do with when the housing was built. There's a certain style (1950's, maybe?) that seems to lend itself to a rundown look - not unlike those horrid brutalist concrete blocks from around the same time. Aesthetically, the housing in the East Oakland flatlands don't look much different from the flatlands of Belmont or San Mateo or San Bruno on the other side of the bay. They both look rundown (that might be a bit strong - dated?) despite having very different populations, demographics, socioeconomic status, et cetera. I also think places like Texas and Utah have the benefit of space. Being waterbound in an expensive area, many middles class families are stuck in these '50's housing tracts. In Texas, they could probably move to a more "modern" development.

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by Jonatton Yeah?

I would imagine it also has to do with when the housing was built. There's a certain style (1950's, maybe?) that seems to lend itself to a rundown look - not unlike those horrid brutalist concrete blocks from around the same time. Aesthetically, the housing in the East Oakland flatlands don't look much different from the flatlands of Belmont or San Mateo or San Bruno on the other side of the bay. They both look rundown (that might be a bit strong - dated?) despite having very different populations, demographics, socioeconomic status, et cetera. I also think places like Texas and Utah have the benefit of space. Being waterbound in an expensive area, many middles class families are stuck in these '50's housing tracts. In Texas, they could probably move to a more "modern" development.

I agree, visually-speaking North Central San Mateo is very similar to a lot of East Oakland.

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Jonatton Yeah?

I would imagine it also has to do with when the housing was built. There's a certain style (1950's, maybe?) that seems to lend itself to a rundown look - not unlike those horrid brutalist concrete blocks from around the same time. Aesthetically, the housing in the East Oakland flatlands don't look much different from the flatlands of Belmont or San Mateo or San Bruno on the other side of the bay. They both look rundown (that might be a bit strong - dated?) despite having very different populations, demographics, socioeconomic status, et cetera. I also think places like Texas and Utah have the benefit of space. Being waterbound in an expensive area, many middles class families are stuck in these '50's housing tracts. In Texas, they could probably move to a more "modern" development.

My point is dumps are created by the people who live there, not the actual homes. A middle-tier home in San Mateo looks like a lower tier-home in Orlando. However, in San Mateo those homes are usually well taken care of and so are their lawns. In Orlando, those homes look run down and their lawn has junk all over them etc. They don't care about their homes or community because in that area, those homes are considered lower-tier. That's what I mean by people create dumps, not the actual homes or communities.

[BrendanRabbitt]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

I was just talking about this today, many middle-class areas in the Bay Area and California in general look like the slums in various cities in Texas, Colorado, Florida, Utah (examples). It's the people that make an area seem like a dump or ghetto etc.

that's a lot of places actually.

[wave9x]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

My point is dumps are created by the people who live there, not the actual homes. A middle-tier home in San Mateo looks like a lower tier-home in Orlando. However, in San Mateo those homes are usually well taken care of and so are their lawns. In Orlando, those homes look run down and their lawn has junk all over them etc. They don't care about their homes or community because in that area, those homes are considered lower-tier. That's what I mean by people create dumps, not the actual homes or communities.

First off, even a low tier house in San Mateo is vastly nicer than a lower tier house in Orlando. This in large part due to the city and county ordinances, which are fairly strict in San Mateo, which have kept the lots a certain size, house additions proportional, the streets lined with mature trees, and yards free of weeds and junk for the most part. It is not necessarily because of the people. EPA just needs some stricter enforcement of these ordinances, but I imagine fighting crime rightfully takes priority and code violations have taken a back seat.