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Anyone who argues with these words is either dumb, deaf and blind, or absolutely a part of the problem.
SF unequivocally sucks these days. As does L.A. as does NYC. I have love for all three but the woman tells it like it is in this post people! Open your eyes. She herself even admits to being one of those that came and removed the genuine vibe and character. This is not a naysayer here.
Cities in America nowadays are sheltered little alcoves for people of privledge and primness. Its embarrassingly obvious and getting only worse. The middle class has gone missing and those people are the very heart and soul through which a city gleans it's intangibles.
Urban life is drastically changing and for the much worse. It' gone uber-vanilla and pretty soon Its gonna be care bears in Chinatown.
Mini, you are a goddess. <3
-a former SF resident.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you are not actually FROM the City, ronin? Were you there in the 70's, 80's, 90's, by any chance? Your (and mini's) take on the perspective of someone not from here or the Bay Area. So whatever you guys like or not like or absolutely love about San Francisco doesn't matter to people like me and folks that that have been here a very long time. It's seriously not the San Francisco that most every Bay Arean remembers. There didn't used to be a snobbery about living in the City vs. the East Bay, for example. I think there was a collective experience amongst people from all around the region.
If anyone wants to kind of get a sense of San Francisco decades ago, I highly recommend a series based on a series of books that was played on PBS many moons ago..written by Armistead Maupin (another San Franciscan (that also moved out!).
Also, a movie (I never managed to read the booK) you may or may not have seen, "Joy Luck Club" really good sort of San Francisco back in the 80's Asian American perspective. Also, a big funny one my family really loved..."Chan is Missing" by Wayne Wang.
There are many others of course, but it's kinda interesting to get a different perspective of how things have changed from a local's view. I really don't think those kind of changes have happened to other cities as rapidly or profoundly.
I'm not trying to offend anyone...just giving an entirely different perspective from someone that may have only lived here for a little while recently.
Don't get me wrong...I still and will always LOVE San Francisco, warts and all. don't presume it to be the best place/nor the worse place on Earth
Mini cute, yes every place has changed. Natives in an area generally don't like it and prefer things how they were. I witnessed San Diego's change and I personally think it was for the better. As far as the rest of the west coast, it seems to be working like this; Portland today is where Seattle was 25 years ago. Seattle is where San Francisco was 25 years ago (certainly seems that way to me). Not sure where SF has gone and what it's supposed to resemble. I was just talking to my mother a little while ago about how the Bay Area as a whole has changed.
So, if I move to Portland, everything will be fine?
A lot of areas in SF have been cleaned up and redeveloped too. You take the good with the bad I suppose but I wouldn't say it's "worse" overall at all. Sure it may be more yuppie or whatever but it's also less of a dump in many parts too.
One of the places that was redeveloped that I am grateful for is the Embarcadero. Probably my most favorite environs in the entire city.
Mini cute, yes every place has changed. Natives in an area generally don't like it and prefer things how they were. I witnessed San Diego's change and I personally think it was for the better. As far as the rest of the west coast, it seems to be working like this; Portland today is where Seattle was 25 years ago. Seattle is where San Francisco was 25 years ago (certainly seems that way to me). Not sure where SF has gone and what it's supposed to resemble. I was just talking to my mother a little while ago about how the Bay Area as a whole has changed.
Hey Gentoo, Interesting what you've shared about Portland being where Seattle was 25 years ago, and Seattle being where SF was 25 years ago. And yes, I am not sure where SF is heading. Some people say Manhattanization, but I don't think it is quite that. Maybe its going into uncharted waters.
Someone made this point on another thread here. The Embarcadero is a beautiful, stimulating place, instead of a run-down neglected part of town. SoMa has really come up in the world, and continues to improve. There are still families on the West side of town and in the Mission. (If there were no families left in SF, there would be no need for schools, right?)
I don't know about "soulless yuppies". I do know of lots of Russian, Chinese and Japanese families in the City. I guess it all depends on who you hang out with? There's a lot more to SF than meets the eye. And Portland has changed for the better, imo. It used to be conservative, and a bit run down. Downtown is now vibrant, public transport has improved vastly, and judging by how many people on this forum want to move there, it has its own cachet, and is especially popular with young people. It's transformed from a somewhat dingey, grey, NW town to an attractive, "cool" place to live.
Yes, the Embarcadero is absolutely stunning and has taken a turn for the better from what it was before from I understand. SoMa has cleaned up somewhat.
As for families, I keep hearing about and reading articles that families have been increasingly priced out of the city. That the city now has more dogs than children, and the smallest number of children per capita of any city in the US...
I think a lot of the Russian, Chinese, and Japanese families reside in neighborhood to the west and south of SF. SoMa and notably Mission Bay, where I live, is transplant nation.
Please don't misinterpret what people (me included are saying). It's changed for sure, but I think it has more to do with "bubble nature" of San Francisco. It kinda started in the mid 90's...
After my husband and I had our first kid, we had just about enough saved for a down payment on a house. I was able to be a new "stay at home mom". My husband was doing pretty well for the time. We'd started showing up at open houses with definite plans to purchase somewhere near where my friends/relatives all live.
Suddenly, the whole dot.com thing happened. Rents skyrocketed like never before, housing prices quadrupled in a few years. People that grew up here...and the regular transplants that didn't grow up here, but intended on staying were sorta "forced" out so to speak.
Suddenly there was a massive influx of "dinks"(double income, no kids). We were suddenly unable to keep up with the increase in housing prices. My husband and I had our hearts set on a house that was around 320k--it ended up selling for nearly 800k!!...so many people moving in...potential renters bribing landlords, paying for new carpeting etc. It sucked!!
The only people that I know that I've known that remained are the lucky few families that were a tad older than me and my husband and managed to buy prior to the rapid increase in prices. The other few friends were incredibly lucky and made really good money either selling their growing companies, or singles that managed to stick around over rent control.
Unfortunately it's happening all over again right now..I am astounded at the rents. I'm astounded at the house prices. I don't blame you specifically per se. It's more about a collection of well to do, generally tech people that priced us natives all out. I wrote a similar post many years ago here. The City has lost its soul and has become more of a Disneyland for "dinks" and singles (not saying it's you or any transplants specifically...more of a collective change in the dynamic). I don't feel at ease or even welcome in my own town anymore...these types in genral love it the way it is- not how it used to be (which really isn't their FAULT either, I guess). Of course then, you get all the rich families moving to places like Noe Valley---that's a hoot. It used to be quite working class...maybe middle class--quite a few black families.
I can't comment on the rest of America thing...this is my home, and it's always been my home. I don't and can't compare it to anywhere else. I suppose if I moved to NYC then I wouldn't really "get" how that City used to be either. Let's just say the demographics are to blame, not the transplants. Most of my roommates back when I was in my early twenties were actually all from the Bay Area--Walnut Creek/Concord...even Marin. I rarely met anyone from out of state!
It sounds like you feel it has been mostly due to a demographic change now that there are more couples without kids now and singles and they opt to live in SF and also the techies coming in. Yes, I think there are lots more of those types of people, which has been impacting cities all over. NYC (notably Manhattan) was probably the first major city in the nation to experience gentrification due to DINKS and singles. As for the tech influx, that seems more uniquely an SF and Bay Area phenomenon.
Last edited by mini_cute; 07-02-2013 at 11:43 PM..
I think a lot of Bay Area natives would move to SF when they were younger before but now many seem to not want to pay what it costs to live there although some still do among people I know but they're the more yuppy type. So I agree it's more about demographics overall than just "transplants". Locals would want to move there simply because its a fun city to live in and not because it's so "sophisticated, educated, socially aware, liberal", or whatever other stereotype that draws many outsiders today.
Yeah, when I was younger and growing up in LA, SF was perceived as a sleepy town to the north of little significance. Maybe a nice place to get away for a short vacation once or twice, if ever. Now the young folks think it is a pretty hip. I guess that is what it is- people now think SF is actually pretty hip.
Anyone who argues with these words is either dumb, deaf and blind, or absolutely a part of the problem.
SF unequivocally sucks these days. As does L.A. as does NYC. I have love for all three but the woman tells it like it is in this post people! Open your eyes. She herself even admits to being one of those that came and removed the genuine vibe and character. This is not a naysayer here.
Cities in America nowadays are sheltered little alcoves for people of privlege and primness. Its embarrassingly obvious and getting only worse. The middle class has gone missing and those people are the very heart and soul through which a city gleans it's intangibles.
Urban life is drastically changing and for the much worse. It's gone uber-vanilla and pretty soon Its gonna be care bears in Chinatown.
Mini, you are a goddess. <3
-a former SF resident.
LOL, your post flatters me and thanks for the compliments. Never thought anyone would think any of my posts would be good enough for post of the year, so thank you. =)
I agree with most if not all of what you say, minicute.
A lot of it has become true of the Silicon Valley as well, though to a lesser degree as middle class people can raise their families in the SV but typically only at such great compromise that they opt out. There are seemingly always threads with this theme in the San Jose forum.
The middle class living in SF and the SV who decide to start families are likely going to have to move to the flyover states if they want to be able to buy a house in a good neighborhood with good schools or, even better, to both buy that very house and private-school their children.
Texas has been a refuge for Californians wanting to do just that but I foresee TX's big cities becoming more like those of CA in the aforementioned negative ways. Why? Because TX has become saturated with low income people who have large numbers of kids who are doing poorly in school; TX's big cities are following Los Angeles. Add to that the conversion of TX first to a politically "purple" state and then to a "blue" state and then TX will be mostly indistinguishable from CA.
If TX's big cities do indeed suffer that fate, I'm not sure where the middle class will go start families.
I guess the migratory patterns within the USA will be fairly erratic in the future compared with East Coast/Midwest-to-CA migration in the past and the CA-to-TX migration of the present.
This is the new normal. We may as well accept it.
Interesting to hear how big cities in TX are becoming more like cities in CA. I don't know much about TX, but I imagine many natives probably especially hate those changes.
Last edited by mini_cute; 07-02-2013 at 11:43 PM..
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