SF changed for the worse? or at all? (San Francisco, Sacramento: upper-class, best neighborhoods)

[ZhugeLiang]

Originally Posted by JuanitoPasteles44

Not only are the families leaving, but the very image that used to attract so many people here (hip, rebellious, anti establishment, anti corporate, diverse, tolerant) In my opinion is going away also, so its not like the image is even real it seems to me that its just a bunch of young wealthy people pretending to be in a scene that was already over exagerrated but now barely exists. Making the situation even more of a headache, but thank god they havent taken every neighborhood yet. However the sad part is also Ive noticed that alot of local people born and raised here some of them are dressing and acting the same way (trendy clothes, walking around with labtops, talking outta thier asses about world issues, sitting in cafes looking intellectual, pretending to be in Europe etc.) and thats even more frustrating, for anyone who hasnt noticed Im sorta using this forum to vent. Anyway another problem is that this trend isnt even contained to gentrified neighborhoods it spreads around, I guess its just the current style around here, unfortunatly though the style manifests itself in a certain group of people who insist on kicking out regular folks simply so they can be in a "scene"

Speaking of which Im sure everyone knows whats gonna happen to Hunters Point, dont u guys think its a bit ****ed up that theres gonna be almost NO black people in San Francisco in 10 years time or so? They've actually managed to get rid of an ENIRE race of people from the city!

For the life of me, I still don't understand where you're coming from with your complaints.

Last I checked, a family in a minivan was violently attacked by bicyclists during Critical Mass, no rebellion?

There are constant parades and demonstrations taking place, City Government is entertaining as always what with no one being competent enough to propose anything remotely practical. so again, I still have no clue where your sentiment comes from.

As for the rest of your post, sure, things may very well be changing. Its a tech economy up there, and one needs the skills to survive and be able to afford to live in such an environment, that's just the plain reality. You combine that with people who for whatever reason vote against their economic interests, as well as maintaining a sanctuary status for illegal immigrants which drives up the price of housing even further, and you're going to get an area that is overpriced and a pain to afford.

It is possible to be rebellious, anti-establishment, diverse, without being a bum. The people just have more sophisticated job skills than before. They grew up in other words.

And if blacks can't afford to live there, why is this at all relevant? A lot of Whites, Latinos, Indians, Asians, Jews, etc., can't afford it either.

[JuanitoPasteles44]

"It is possible to be rebellious, anti-establishment, diverse, without being a bum. The people just have more sophisticated job skills than before. They grew up in other words."

Ok Zhuegliang how does having a great job and sucess have anything to do with someone's maturity? so middle class and poor people are less sucessful because they havent grown up yet and are a bunch of immature kids? Im complaining because I see a community built on immigrants and hard working people being forced out because some young wealthy hipsters wanna use thier homes as a playpen for thier selfish shallow image. And personally I think a "bum" does have a better understanding on the reality of social issues than a wealthy person does and when I say understanding I dont mean straight of the books great education, I mean living in pain and suffering day after day.

As for the black community here I simply find it sad that a whole group of people are having to leave, how is that relevant you ask? because as we all know the black community as a whole are as we all hate to admit America's underclass. They make up a huge percentage of the poorest of Americans and the wealthy are scarred ****less of the poor. Personally I find it fishy that now since San Francisco has become a magnet for young wealthy professionals the poorest citizens suddenly are getting driven out of their neighborhoods. I dont know if anyone knows about the old housing projects in North Beach, but when I was a kid they were there, today they have been completly redone and the old residents are no where to be found. Why? beacause the tourists were feeling a little uncomfortable having so many poor people hangin out near the cable car line. As a result the buinesses were suffering a bit so suddenly poof no more projects no more poor people.

The point Im tryin to make with that little story is this... instead of having compassion for poor struggling people and trying to TRUELY help them (not just throwing money at them and tellin them to **** off) we get rid of them, now Im not sayin all u guys need to go around being nice to all the poor people and givin them money or whatever, just leave them the **** alone, its bad enough that they live in a project in the first place, now u make them get out and move to another project mabye even a worse one! Why? beacuse the buildings are ugly to look at? the people scare you? theyre bad for buisness? So dont give me this **** about "well if they cant afford it they should leave its reality" because I know that already, reality is ****ed up me ranting on this dumb ass website isnt gonna change anything at all, Im merley pointing out in this whole thread that reality sucks and I wish with all my heart that people could stop ****ing with other peoples buisness.

[moxiezbug]

Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang

For the life of me, I still don't understand where you're coming from with your complaints.

Last I checked, a family in a minivan was violently attacked by bicyclists during Critical Mass, no rebellion?

There are constant parades and demonstrations taking place, City Government is entertaining as always what with no one being competent enough to propose anything remotely practical. so again, I still have no clue where your sentiment comes from.

As for the rest of your post, sure, things may very well be changing. Its a tech economy up there, and one needs the skills to survive and be able to afford to live in such an environment, that's just the plain reality. You combine that with people who for whatever reason vote against their economic interests, as well as maintaining a sanctuary status for illegal immigrants which drives up the price of housing even further, and you're going to get an area that is overpriced and a pain to afford.

It is possible to be rebellious, anti-establishment, diverse, without being a bum. The people just have more sophisticated job skills than before. They grew up in other words.

And if blacks can't afford to live there, why is this at all relevant? A lot of Whites, Latinos, Indians, Asians, Jews, etc., can't afford it either.

You should take a look at the article that was mentioned in this thread. Exodus of the middle class in SF from SFGate.com. It has a lot of good arguments on why the exodus is bad for a city.

[gizmo980]

Please watch your language, Juanito. Your opinions are welcomed, but we have the censor in place for a reason - and prefer it doesn't have to be used.

Btw, I live in the Hunter's Point area, and agree it's sad that people are being pushed out... but it's the natural progression of a city like this, and I'm not really sure what can be done (or if anything should be done). I am a white/Jewish person, but not what you'd call a yuppie, so it's hard for me to badmouth either side. All I can say is that I moved to this neighborhood because it's "affordable," and used to be close to work - not my fault I can't afford Nob Hill or North Beach.

[Atl_321]

Leaving the city?

The creative class guy says you pay for social access. But some of those super creative types still left the city. Some live as far out as farmers! Why?

They got this neat new toy call internet access.

[clongirl]

Zhugelian- so you say a family minivan was violently attacked by bicyclists? My point exactly. Is this your definition of cool rebellion- scaring and intimidating a bunch of little kids to prove a point?

I think the points that are being made here are that the fabric of San Francisco has definitely changed over the years. From free thinking, creative, middle class AND wealthy types and families; to young, single, rich, career minded, overtly judgmental PC selfish types. It used to be a great mix of people both rich and poor, young and old, white and black (and Asian!). Now it seems to be just rich and richer.

I don't think anyone's complaining about it- just stating their observations. I suspect that you are a recent newcomer that hence your defensiveness about job skills, technology etc. rebellion, etc.

[CamaroGuy]

Cities change every day. That's life I guess.

[total_genius]

I have friends who live in San Francisco and they are really angry that very poor African Americans are leaving the City. They brought so much to the community and they will be missed.

They are also angry that so many rich White people are moving in. They always thought as Asians that San Francisco was their City and it should be set aside for Asians who had dominated the community for years.

[City Boy]

Same thing is happening in NYC.

[Baron von Costume]

What's somewhat amusing about this is that the hard working blue collar types and immigrants being lionised in the complaint largely got pushed out by the so-called "rebels" before they too got pushed out.

If a city is viewed as desirable (because of jobs, climate, geography, culture, whatever), then people will want to come. That will force prices up. How to decide who gets to stay and who has to go?

Otherwise, if a city is undesirable, it gets old, crumbles, and those who can leave.

One alternative I offer to the San Francisco model is Detroit, Michican. Or Newark, NJ. Which model do you prefer, really?