Should I relocate to San Fran? (San Francisco, Oakland: apartment, foreclosure, rent)

[Lakewood]

Hi Everyone,

I visited SF last week on a job interview for the first time and really liked the city but realized quickly it was pretty expensive.

I have about 3 years experience in my field and I was offered the position on the East Bay (Emervyille) @ $80K/Yr. This isn't too much higher than what I currently draw here in the midwest and not sure it will maintain my lifestyle, although I would have to live on the east bay and I believe cost of living is slightly lower there?

I'm torn between making the decision on a financial basis (which doesn't make much sense actually) and the fact that SF is a great city and the feeling that my life would be so much more active and the diversity of the area is also very appealing for me.

I'd like to know from folks here if the base pay is commensurate with professionals with 3 yrs experience (I work in Marketing)? Also, would you advise relocating to CA during these uncertain economic times and the fact that the state is bankrupt?

Thanks everyone, I appreciate anyone and everyone's responses!

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Lakewood

Hi Everyone,

I visited SF last week on a job interview for the first time and really liked the city but realized quickly it was pretty expensive.

I have about 3 years experience in my field and I was offered the position on the East Bay (Emervyille) @ $80K/Yr. This isn't too much higher than what I currently draw here in the midwest and not sure it will maintain my lifestyle, although I would have to live on the east bay and I believe cost of living is slightly lower there?

I'm torn between making the decision on a financial basis (which doesn't make much sense actually) and the fact that SF is a great city and the feeling that my life would be so much more active and the diversity of the area is also very appealing for me.

I'd like to know from folks here if the base pay is commensurate with professionals with 3 yrs experience (I work in Marketing)? Also, would you advise relocating to CA during these uncertain economic times and the fact that the state is bankrupt?

Thanks everyone, I appreciate anyone and everyone's responses!

I don't know about your field specifically, but as far as pay goes, I think what you described is true in most instances (somewhat higher pay, but not enough to make up for higher cost of living).

I think you need to ask yourself:

1. Do I plan on having kids? If you do, you'll definitely find an 80K salary doesn't go that far with a famiy. You'll need a spouse with that kind of salary to live a decent lifestyle here (the public schools are not that great and that's the kind of income you'll need to live in a decent school district..maybe a little less)...and then the problem is you and your spouse will be so busy working you won't get to raise your kids.

2. If you don't ever plan on having kids, most people like it here. Certainly you can live comfortably on 80K here as a single person if you have realistic expectations (Think nice 1BR apartment, not owning a single family detached home).

3. I think you must be prepared for the possibility of a major earthquake as both Northern & Southern CA are overdue for them.

4. I think you must also be prepared for the fact that the state may be in a gradual decline. Despite persistent complaints about overcrowding, our population growth rate has slowed over the last 20 years. We have a lot of high income professionals like you, but many of our middle class has moved out or been forced out. We have a lot of illegal immigrants who use a disproportionate amount of state services and people like you will be paying the lion's share of taxes to subsidize them. This doesn't seem like a big deal when you're young, but this kind of stuff becomes more of a drag over time for some people.

5. Is home ownership a 'must' for you? On 80K, it's going to be hard for you to afford a house or even a condo that you'd want to live in. A lot of people here pay huge portions of their salaries to their mortgages. If the recent foreclosure crisis doesn't illustrate what a bad idea that is, I don't know what will.

That said, there is a lot of fun stuff to do in the Bay Area. And at your income level, you will be able to do many of those things and still have some savings in the 401k.

In general, Oakland / East Bay cities are cheaper than San Francisco. Parts of Oakland are scary, but if you pick and choose your neigbhorhoods, there are some cool places to live in Oakland. My personal preference is that I actually like parts of the East Bay (parts of Oakland and Berkeley) better than San Francisco. I like the urban lifestyle, but SF is just a little too densely populated for me. You can live an urban lifestyle in Oakland/Berkeley without the extreme density of SF. I also really like East Bay parks in the hills.

[minibrings]

6. Can you learn to say San Francisco and not 'San Fran'. Locals don't like the latter; and many years I ago I lived on Nob HIll and I would correct people. One of my flights back the pilot said 'San Fran' and quite a few people said 'Cisco' in the back. LOL.

And life is too short. If you want to live in the bay.. give it a shot. You'll find (as I have) that when you move to a more expensive place and have a smaller apartment that you really did not need all that stuff that you once had. And the first snowstorm you read about when settled in the east bay, you will be happy you did (though I left California to enjoy 4 seasons).

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by minibrings

6. Can you learn to say San Francisco and not 'San Fran'. Locals don't like the latter; and many years I ago I lived on Nob HIll and I would correct people. One of my flights back the pilot said 'San Fran' and quite a few people said 'Cisco' in the back. LOL.

Find a hobby.

[rah]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

Find a hobby.

says the troll.

[18Montclair]

Yes, move here and love it.

[Boompa]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

I don't know about your field specifically, but as far as pay goes, I think what you described is true in most instances (somewhat higher pay, but not enough to make up for higher cost of living).

I think you need to ask yourself:

1. Do I plan on having kids? If you do, you'll definitely find an 80K salary doesn't go that far with a famiy. You'll need a spouse with that kind of salary to live a decent lifestyle here (the public schools are not that great and that's the kind of income you'll need to live in a decent school district..maybe a little less)...and then the problem is you and your spouse will be so busy working you won't get to raise your kids.

2. If you don't ever plan on having kids, most people like it here. Certainly you can live comfortably on 80K here as a single person if you have realistic expectations (Think nice 1BR apartment, not owning a single family detached home).

3. I think you must be prepared for the possibility of a major earthquake as both Northern & Southern CA are overdue for them.

4. I think you must also be prepared for the fact that the state may be in a gradual decline. Despite persistent complaints about overcrowding, our population growth rate has slowed over the last 20 years. We have a lot of high income professionals like you, but many of our middle class has moved out or been forced out. We have a lot of illegal immigrants who use a disproportionate amount of state services and people like you will be paying the lion's share of taxes to subsidize them. This doesn't seem like a big deal when you're young, but this kind of stuff becomes more of a drag over time for some people.

5. Is home ownership a 'must' for you? On 80K, it's going to be hard for you to afford a house or even a condo that you'd want to live in. A lot of people here pay huge portions of their salaries to their mortgages. If the recent foreclosure crisis doesn't illustrate what a bad idea that is, I don't know what will.

That said, there is a lot of fun stuff to do in the Bay Area. And at your income level, you will be able to do many of those things and still have some savings in the 401k.

In general, Oakland / East Bay cities are cheaper than San Francisco. Parts of Oakland are scary, but if you pick and choose your neigbhorhoods, there are some cool places to live in Oakland. My personal preference is that I actually like parts of the East Bay (parts of Oakland and Berkeley) better than San Francisco. I like the urban lifestyle, but SF is just a little too densely populated for me. You can live an urban lifestyle in Oakland/Berkeley without the extreme density of SF. I also really like East Bay parks in the hills.

What doom and gloom. You can buy a new home on Mare Island for $300,000 and take the Ferry to work in downtown San Francisco.

I made the decision to live close to work, rent was high but I didn't use my car until the weekend. Once you get past the housing cost San Francisco is fairly cheap to live. Especially if you don't have to drive to work and spend hours on the road.

The wisest decision I ever made was to drop Philadelphia and head west. It allowed me to live well and make enough money to retire early.

[hsw]

Would always relocate to wherever are best career opportunities (a region w/many major companies and many start-up companies, w/upwardly mobile incomes) and wherever are most smart, ambitious people (for both career and social networking)

No region in world, except Manhattan, can rival SF region in terms of career opportunities and talent of those college grads who annually migrate to these two regions (usu the immigrants from rest of US and RoW are far more talented than natives)

SF is a hell of a lot cheaper and has far better weather and QOL than Manhattan, assuming equal incomes

Chicago is the only economically powerful region in Midwest but is not materially cheaper than SF (and more costly when one factors time/costs of periodically escaping its nasty weather and boring topography)

BTW, EastBay tends to be quite provincial, esp for a single; sort of like living as a single in NJ/LI suburbs of NYC or Western suburbs of Chic just b/c one's employer's offices are located on the "wrong" side of region

Would live in SF; drive to Oak is easy; SF is home of yuppie culture (both good and bad) and one's next job is more likely to be in Silicon Valley or SF anyway

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by rah

says the troll.

Okay...

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by hsw

No region in world, except Manhattan, can rival SF region in terms of career opportunities

DC could.