How much age discrimination is in Silicon Valley? (fit in, 2013)

[nagleepark]

Age discrimination isn't my issue yet. So, I'm on the fence.

However, several of my friends claim age discrimination when they've interviewed. But I'm not so sure.

I feel that it is too easy to claim age discrimination, just because you didn't get the job. There are lots of reasons that a candidate might not get a job. A candidate can't really know. When I asked my friends how they knew, they said that some interviewers came into the room and did a double-take when they first saw them and that everybody in the company was in his 20s. OK, well, maybe.

I remember an NPR radio show with the author of a book where a guy called in, claiming Silicon Valley sucks because of age discrimination. (The book claimed that Silicon Valley was an awesome meritocracy.) The author was mad and shot back: "All you old guys let your skills rot and never want to learn anything new! It's your own fault!" Not the first time that I've heard that said. Seems like a common stereotype.

About 15 years ago, I remember asking another interviewer if he thought we should hire a certain candidate and he said: "No way! He's old!" I was shocked. That's blatant age discrimination.

Personally, I never understood age discrimination, even when I was young. Getting old is something that happens to everybody; the only way to avoid it is TO DIE YOUNG. "That'll be me someday" seems obvious when a young person interviews an older person. Why give the shaft to somebody when, in 10 to 20 years, you'll be on the receiving end?

I know that age discrimination exists. But how much is there? From your perspective, is it a few startups here and there or is it widespread and significantly impacts older engineers?

[ccm123]

For sure, it is present, but I would say to varying degrees, depending on the dynamics of the company. If your skills are in demand, my experiences with colleagues have indicated that there is very little age discrimination. If your skills are pretty common and you are demanding a high salary and benefits, the companies will go with a "more economical" (ofter younger) alternative.

I have a colleague who was recently hired at Cisco as an engineer, she is 60+ years old.

[silverkris]

I think it will also depend on the particular industry sector and company.

For functions/areas that have a steeper learning curve or have more mature persons in it, for example, hardware, or analog circuits, there's probably less age discrimination simply because of the demographic.

Now for software development, it's probably more of a young persons' game.

[sjnative]

Originally Posted by nagleepark

...

Personally, I never understood age discrimination, even when I was young. Getting old is something that happens to everybody; the only way to avoid it is TO DIE YOUNG. "That'll be me someday" seems obvious when a young person interviews an older person. Why give the shaft to somebody when, in 10 to 20 years, you'll be on the receiving end?

I somehow don't think karma or altruism are major considerations for hiring managers in the $ilicon Valley.

Originally Posted by nagleepark

I know that age discrimination exists. But how much is there? From your perspective, is it a few startups here and there or is it widespread and significantly impacts older engineers?

I'm not an engineer but I'll chime with both anecdote and conjecture.

I've talked to one 30-something ex-engineer who claimed he got out of that profession because older engineers are perceived a has-been's and that younger engineers are viewed as more cutting-edge and contemporary. He didn't say what area of engineering he worked in, though, so I can't say.

His words seem plausible to me as I've read several news articles of older, out-of-work engineers complaining they had been age-discriminated against.

Other than being "cutting edge" and "contemporary," I think younger engineers are viewed as
more motivated and more exploitable than their older counterparts. At the same time, the younger engineers, compared to their older counterparts, are untested and haven't developed reputations for mediocrity, a lack of work ethic or an entitlement mentality. They may later gain such reputations, but as they are young, they haven't yet.

In those respects, younger engineers may be just like their younger counterparts in other occupations.

[red4ce]

How many of these old engineers who claim age discrimination can honestly claim they stand toe to toe with the younger guys based on merit? My dad can, he's a computer engineer in his mid 50's and despite having worked for multiple failed startups he's never gone more than a week without a job. That's because he still works hard and keeps his skills and knowledge base relevant to 2013, not 1983. When you have a reputation for quality, your skills will always be in demand.

[SportyandMisty]

It depends on the discipline. In those same companies with 20-something engineers, make a left turn & go into the Tax department or the Legal department. You'll find grey-hairs are valued. When you're structuring stock options for US expats living in Ireland but on a TDY assignment to Hong Kong, a company needs the skills of someone in international tax for 30 years. Even the best 20-something tax attorney would be clueless.

[otterprods]

Honestly, most of my co-workers, myself included, are in their 40's or 50's. We've had a few in their late 50's and beyond, but they were usually either contracting for a specific job or moved on of their own accord. There are some in their 30's but not conspicuously so, because they're just one of us. We do have one engineer in his 20's but he is exceptionally brilliant and immediately became the technical lead that everyone else looked up to. So is there age discrimination here? Not in any way that I've seen that wasn't just self-inflicted.

I did work for a group once, briefly, up in SF, that was filled with people in their 20's and early 30's. They spoke enthusiastically about how great it was to have so many young minds working together, forward thinking, and all that... That team and the product it build never made it to market and no longer exists at all. It wasn't entirely their fault, but they really should have invited some age and experience in and listened to it instead of just insisting on solving everything themselves from scratch. On the other hand, I've seen a lot of older folks cling too heavily to old ways, not show much enthusiasm for their work, act bitter, and be gone before long. They may have just retired though, I don't know.

[NoMoreSnowForMe]

Just wanted to chime in, that older workers are more expensive to insure.

Finding a job definitely became more difficult for me when I got over 50. I think employers look at the cost of insurance, but also at how an applicant will fit in with the team. If everybody is in their 20's, a 50 year old may not fit in.

But, if you've got skills they need, and they can't find somebody cheaper or who will fit in better, they'll hire you, as others have said.

[zitsky]

Originally Posted by red4ce

How many of these old engineers who claim age discrimination can honestly claim they stand toe to toe with the younger guys based on merit? My dad can, he's a computer engineer in his mid 50's and despite having worked for multiple failed startups he's never gone more than a week without a job. That's because he still works hard and keeps his skills and knowledge base relevant to 2013, not 1983. When you have a reputation for quality, your skills will always be in demand.

Why isn't it the other way around? Why isn't the question, "can the newer employees keep up with the older ones, and show they have as much potential and skill"? Why assume it's the older employees that can't keep up?

[ccm123]

Generally, older employees are seen as less flexible and usually like to have things "their way". Obviously, just a generalization.

Originally Posted by zitsky

Why isn't it the other way around? Why isn't the question, "can the newer employees keep up with the older ones, and show they have as much potential and skill"? Why assume it's the older employees that can't keep up?