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I can't believe so many people fail to understand the purpose to the "freeze" in this city.
It's not social elitism. It's not because we're cold. It's not because we're mean or we have excessively big-city values.
It's because this is Seattle. What is Seattle famous for? Tech. Seattle and San Francisco are the centers of the technological universe. What do you need to accomplish that? A huge workforce of techies. What are techies? Nerds. How many outgoing and socially agile nerds did you know growing up?
Even those of us that aren't socially awkward are not the most outgoing people on the planet. The type of mindset to become a techie, the type of person that the tech industry appeals to, are overwhelmingly "I's" in the Myers-Briggs chart. What is I? Introvert. We don't feel a need to talk to every person we meet. We don't get a charge out of being in groups of people. Take it a step further, and most of us are INTP's. What is an INTP? Typically someone who figures things out very quickly, and becomes very bored with mundane or shallow issues.
What does this mean? It means that we don't want to spend 45 minutes talking about a fishing trip or the best way to commute from Mercer Island to Alki Beach. We typically say our piece, we gather whatever information we desire, and then we're done with the topic. We want to move on. We don't want to delve further into a topic that is not mentally challenging. We're done talking.
There's nothing wrong with being an INTP, and typically the only people who have problems with us or try to claim that we're somehow dysfunctional or defective in some way are extroverts who can't fathom not spending 4 hours talking about their last meal. We're just a different type of person. If you can't handle that, then that's your problem. We certainly don't go around whining about how bothersome you are. It's not our job to adapt to your whims.
How much of the "freeze" is a mis-nterpretation of the fact that people are working more, spending more time commuting, and generally have less time to get more done?
Holy crap I just think I gave birth to an octopus egg after reading your comment. What does that say next to your name: 4000 something posts!!? Do you really think all the words in your 4000+ posts at this site are somehow better-interpreted or more meaningful than any number of words I'm posting here or ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE WEB in just A HANDFUL of long pieces? Really? Because I literally cannot remember the last time I posted on a forum online, anywhere, before last night. Sure, I've done it before, but it's literally been so long I can't remember.
I think a much better way of putting it is that like most web-ophiles, of which I am not one, you spam more effectively, inserting your opinions quickly here and there, flitting in and out hardly noticed, more than FOUR THOUSAND TIMES!! Yeah, you're really contributing. Hey, being a writer, and actually having something to say whenever I choose to speak, thus not needing to adhere to brevity if my content justifies the volume, I will always take my torturously long "novels" written very sporadically but providing a lot of content and unique viewpoints over your daily habitual lifelong practice of web-addicted spam-posting which I'm sure consumes hours of your life, everyday.
Guess what, the internet is about 50% porn, 40% irrelevant or private data of not much use to the general public, 9% unoriginal or fruitless chatter, and only about 1% actually useful dialogue and information. That's not based on any statistics, just my humorous best guess, but it can't be that far from the truth.
I'm not going to say anything of the text I've written here or its value, I don't care much to even gauge if there is much ... but guess in which one of those above categories your 4000+ posts lie...
Completely uncalled for. Ira's posts 500% more useful and informative than your long rants about how you never got laid while living in Seattle.
HaplessT, when you have to say "Not to sound condescending..." its because you are being condescending.
I've read your "argument"... my only reaction is simply "MEH". I don't care for blanket generalizations and exaggerations. You've made your position clear that anyone who could "defend" Seattle is delusional. As a minority, I resented your post to Anders15-- very inaccurate and wretched. You admitted that you're a white man, what would you know of a minority person's experience in Seattle?
Just admit it, you don't like Seattle and you don't like your experience in Seattle. This doesn't mean there's something wrong with Seattle, it only means: You&Seattle = not good fit.
I'd like to suggest renaming this thread as:
"George Romero's Night of the Living Thread" since it seems to be the thread that just won't die, kinda like the zombies in the Dead movies.
Or maybe Friday the 13th Part 20: Jason Takes Seattle. It keeps coming back like Jason.
HaplessT, when you have to say "Not to sound condescending..." its because you are being condescending.
I've read your "argument"... my only reaction is simply "MEH". I don't care for blanket generalizations and exaggerations. You've made your position clear that anyone who could "defend" Seattle is delusional. As a minority, I resented your post to Anders15-- very inaccurate and wretched. You admitted that you're a white man, what would you know of a minority person's experience in Seattle?
Just admit it, you don't like Seattle and you don't like your experience in Seattle. This doesn't mean there's something wrong with Seattle, it only means: You&Seattle = not good fit.
Agreed - and I would add it's presumptuous to speak on behalf of any group let alone anyone. The only experience one can rightly speak to is their own.
Hapless has basically admitted he is posting his novellas to get a rise, and he's done a good job at that. However, if he's hoping for a publishing deal, I doubt he'll get it here.
I'd like to suggest renaming this thread as:
"George Romero's Night of the Living Thread" since it seems to be the thread that just won't die, kinda like the zombies in the Dead movies.
Or maybe Friday the 13th Part 20: Jason Takes Seattle. It keeps coming back like Jason.
Well if you're a white guy and had a hard time fitting in with the other guys.. and women I guess as a black guy I should reconsider.. is portland the same? San Diego? I did read it all and it is a shame because I had it pictured as a the COMPLETE opposite of the south yet it is the same?? I know I will be in the minority but coming from somewhere that has more blacks than whites i was welcoming the change. =\
No way! Seattle is nothing like the South. Don't let people who would be unhappy anywhere lead you to believe that. I see more black guys with white women here than I see black guys with black women. Where else will you see couples of all races and genders and no one thinks anything of it but in Seattle? If you come out here and you are willing to approach women you will end up having more girlfriends than you'll know what to do with.
Last edited by vandygirl; 10-20-2010 at 10:21 PM..
Did you want to see if others shared your experiences? Or did you want to correct anybody who disagreed with you by telling the "the real truth", even if they felt differently?
Or did you just want to read your words out there for the world to see, pat yourself on the back and tell yourself how brilliant you are?
I'm not going to get into a war with you. I'll continue posting on City-Data, trying to be helpful and if I can't be helpful at least try to get a few laughs.
And you? Will you just come in here, rattle some cages and then disappear?
Yeah... maybe some cage rattling and then a prompt disappearance is indeed the way to go, I'm starting to think. Between last night and today this has already taken up a few hours of my time, and I don't know why I expected anything more, from my experience with internet forums in the past, ages ago though I last tried to dabble in it, but I don't think its fruitful to pursue in the long run, or even the short, considering the meager gains in insight or dialogue to be harvested here. No offense to anybody, I'm just being honest, but let's be real, this is the internet, I wasn't being facetious in my other post when I guessed that 99% of literally the entire internet is either outright junk or just plain useless to the public as a whole.
Let's not pretend that any great debates on cultural philosophy are taking place here, or on most any other forum anywhere else out there, because then we'd just be fooling ourselves.
To answer your questions all in one go... I think writing and sharing ideas rarely if ever needs to be explained or justified if it is done in the spirit of self-expression and the free sharing of information, because its one of those artistic/communicative mediums that I believe is absolutely congenital to being human, much like our vocal chords were not evolved over eons to their current precise and flexible levels by accident; Clearly nature wants us to talk, simply for the sake of talking, and I don't think it does much good to try and explain it beyond that. Next time you're on an airplane remember that you're only sitting there at 30K feet because of two things: vocal chords and opposable thumbs. Even our brains only enlarged with time *after* these two advents had already been implemented by natural selection in the greater human genepool, and as a direct consequence of them. The reasons for talking and writing are therefore, quite self-evident in all of civilization, and I do indeed claim such a purity of purpose.
No, it's not to see if others share my experience, I already know tons of them do, I'm not prone to declaring any opinion I have as the almighty definitive 'truth', however when I believe that such a conclusive description of a thing can be reached almost in an overwhelmingly convincing fashion, and when all the evidence and observable data points that way, I don't mind presuming the use of the word. In life, and along the plodding progress of history, people must stand up once in a while declare that their conclusion is a form of universal 'truth', if their wholehearted belief in seamless marriage with enough scientific and verifiable data all points that way.
No, it's not because I have a huge intellectual ego and I like to suddenly show up on random message boards and assail people into submission with my massive, intricate wordage. Look, I know I'm smart but it's only because I use my mind, I've earned my intelligence over time by constantly applying it, almost by necessity, and for me it's a great tool, especially when writing is concerned, but i never see the need to try and show off or be some literary shock-jock. That just isn't me.
And in the spirit of truth, I will leave this as my last post here but with an expansion on the issue at hand...
People on this forum and in Seattle, or even more broadly simply those zealous and self-blinding 'super-patriots' who proudly assert that there is nothing wrong with America or Americans and we're fine the way we are, 'love it or leave it', there's nothing wrong with Seattle, we're just GRRRRReat... well, all those types of people unwilling to even so much consider the possibility that there actually exist a great deal of maladies and flaws not only with our country but our people and our culture, and everything about us potentially, and that we are a well-intentioned but highly imperfect nation and people... well, those individuals and groups are in reality, more than bad government, more than greedy and wasteful economics, the singlemost severe impediment the other remainding real Americans to achieve any true progress (I say 'real' because they still believe in and uphold the founding national spirit of upheaval, change and self-transformation and thus rejuvenation as set forth in the constitution)
Look people, they have done scientific studies (I'm not a walking bibliography, but google it, I'm sure you'll run across it easily enough) trying to measure the facial and emotional expressions of humans originating from almost every corner of the globe, and you know what they found? They found that emotional expressions as gestured by the face and body such as happiness, anger, frustration, sadness, etc as well as more complicated feelings, are UNIVERSAL. Meaning: that a Pygmy bushman from Africa will display extremely similar emotional responses to a Peruvian llama herder, or a Tibetan monk.
Emotions, it turns out, are a universally recognizable identifying behavioral feature in humans which allows an accurate determination of any given person's emotional condition or reaction. Pretty powerful stuff, i would say.
What's my point? Listen closely, if you're one of those unfortunate obstacles to truth and progress that only contribute to the mass denial of the state of the quality of life and cultural condition not only here in Seattle, and not only in America at large but in the world in general: you may be able to fool yourselves, and you may be able to fool a few others into believing 'everything is just fine', but anybody with eyes and a brain can travel the world a little and distinguish right away the difference between people who are happy, or unhappy, or who are honest and open and who are closed-minded and deceitful, or who are mentally sound or psychologically ill. This isn't my opinion, this is something you need to understand, as I stated above they've done many and elaborate scientifically controlled studies on this very issue, proving quite concretely that nearly the entire range of human emotions and psychologies is accurately discernable and identifiable... mostly just by looking at people. Again, it's an amazing discovery, I know, I agree.
Denial is a terrificly effective means of preserving your perception of the world at the local level, but it doesn't do all that much to combat the irrefutable truth that Seattle is noticeably (again, we're talking about quantifiable scientific measurements here) unhappier, more depressed and just in sum more of a negative, loveless, joyless culture than nearly anywhere else. Go to any city, big or small, anywhere in Central or South America, hell, forget internationally, go to Chicago, go to Austin, almost anywhere, and despite all the flaws and shortcomings of those cities I guarantee an observer to find and gauge a more congenial atmosphere more conducive to an emotionally healthy life than here in infernal little Seattle.
Of course, the people who would argue against this have apparently integrated themselves a little *too* well here, and become too comfortable in their routines and social circles to have much outside perspective, I would wager.
The shame of it is that the people here have soooo much, so much more than other places where the social climate is so much more natural, so much more human and pleasant, and bearable than here: they have possibly the nation's cleanest urban environment and least amount of air and water pollution, based on a factor of population density and volume; they have mountains covered in snow half the year no more than an hour's drive away; they have a relatively robust economy with plenty of opportunities open to those willing to work to attain them; the crime rates are quite commendable except in certain pockets; of course it's modern America so the material wealth and so-called 'standard of living' is phenomenal, and so much else... but still, the misery and fatal social coldness. How can a people have so much, and yet continue to cultivate such an impoverished social culture, as a result of this hovering sort of blanket of cheerlessness and apathy that hugs and stifles all the land??
I'll tell you why, and this is the expansion on the topic at hand I promised above...
There is a very good reason why the civil rights movement and counter-culture movement swung into full fervor in the 1960's in America, which by the way wasn't just a national phenomenon, it was a social wildfire that could be felt and spawned similar permutations ALL ACROSS THE WORLD. And this excellent reason, although there are many historical factors, is quite simply because the 60's followed the 50's, and both were stupefyingly different decades, culturally and politically speaking.
This is what the 50's was like, as excerpted from the very beginning paragraph on Wikipedia's entry on "America in the 1950's":
"During the early 1950s in the United States manufacturing and home construction was on the rise as the American economy was on the upswing. The Korean War and the beginning of the Cold War created a politically conservative climate. The Cold War between the Soviet Union and the United States played out through the entire decade. Fear of Communism caused public Congressional hearings by both houses in Congress and Anti-Communism was the prevailing sentiment in the United States throughout the decade. Conformity and conservatism characterized the social mores of the time. The 1950s in the developed western world are generally considered both socially conservative and highly materialistic in nature."
The 'Red Scare', 'McCarthyism', the Cold War, the birth of the age of television, the birth of mass consumerism... all that and much more, all told, tallies up quite a disconcerting list, to say the least.
Not to mention something most people have never before heard or pondered: that 1950's America was fresh out of WW2 and the Holocaust... the unimaginable horrific and infernal Holocaust. Of course, it makes so much sense when you think about it- what would the American people prefer, to revel in their turbo-charged new economy and wrap their heads around all the shiny new cars everyone's suddenly driving and chuckling and guffawing at all the cheesy new televised entertainment... or... seriously contemplating what had just happened in the world but a decade prior and learning from it, both individually and culturally. I don't blame them. Who would want to think that something as unthinkable as the Holocaust happened in a democratic, modern industrial, predominantly white Western nation, Germany, which altogether wasn't so different from America, considering all the other exotic and diverse nations and cultures of the world.
How would you process that fact? It's difficult, to say the least, so a better solution, is don't even try. Instead, forget all about WW2, hell we won anyway, we saved the world! So what's there to think about... instead, get a job, buy a big suburban home, drive a nice car, marry, have kids, watch the same TV shows as your neighbor, talk and dress the same, affiliate yourself with similar political views and parties as them, purchase the latest toys and gizmos for your kids and your kitchen, and oh, right, make sure to suspect anybody else who doesn't fit in, who isn't normal enough, and ostracize them because they could be a communist.
Sound familiar?
If you exchange the word "communist" in the listed portion of that paragraph with the word "terrorist" or the word "crazy hippie" or any other radical label the public is suspect of these days, I don't really see much difference between the 50's and America today, especially Seattle. But that's getting ahead of ourselves, I'll come back to that a little later towards the end of this last post of mine...
So there was this deep-set avoidance and denial of pondering those bigger issues surrounding the war itself and its many atrocities occurring in the midst of modern Western civilization, after all, 'aren't we supposed to be civilized enough in our day and age that something like the Holocaust never should have happened?' I'm sure many thinkers asked themselves in isolation.
Then came the 60's, and things changed. People are more familiar with everything happened then, so I'm not going to describe the era in full detail or paste encyclopedic entries. To summarize, wild, intense new music- in particular rock and roll their mothers might not approve of- hit full tilt in the mainstream; the civil rights movement, racial rights, labor rights, women's rights, more rights than you could spray with a hose all protesting and marching and clashing with riot police in the news almost constantly; anti-war protests in DC and all over the country; the sexual revolution enabled by the birth control pill, in tandem with the counter-culture movement of drugs, social experimentation, homosexuality, music concerts like Woodstock... you know, the 60's. And there's so much more I'm not going to mention, but those were the basics that defined the era, and it was HUGE.
That era and its events and driving forces not only reshaped the entire country, in essence literally a social revolution, and its politics and policies, culture, economics, music, art, universities... everything changed at least a little afterwards in America, but to a greater extend this storm of radical new thinking affected much of the civilized world as well in South America and Europe, and they too experienced their own version of counter-culturalism more or less during the same era.
So where am I going with this overblown history lesson? Well, there's one thing about the 60's and the movement of those times that you've probably never heard before mentioned in this way. It wasn't about a bunch of weird drugged out hippies, or a bunch of college girls burning their bras. That was part of it, sure, and not to be diminished in their importance, but those were just byproducts, side-effects of a much, much larger pattern taking shape... And what I refer to is the general counter-reactive force taken up by Americans by and large as a whole, especially by the young who in any generation always have the most at stake in the future, in response to the increasingly automated, commercialized, homogenized, paranoid, war-fortified, culturally isolationist, and narrow-minded culture of the 1950's that all told represented a growing coldness and mechanization which America in the 1960's shuddered and convulsed against almost like an immune reaction.
Forget the protests, the drugs, Vietnam or any of those other circumstantial and concurrent events... what was actually happening was not the 'hippie movement', or the 'counter-culture movement'... what was *actually* taking place was simply an AMERICAN MOVEMENT! It was marked by a burning desire to have a more open-minded, more socially tolerant and warmer, culturally diverse, individually diverse, more equal and just, safer and more peaceful, less warmongering and more relaxing and livable, in essence, a FREER America. And what could be more American than fighting to uphold and further the above listed values, rights and principles? There is nothing more American than that fighting spirit crusading for liberty, and freedom.
Don't let anyone ever tell you that the 60's counter-culture era was somehow a big pot-addled party thrown by a bunch of radicals and loonies and fringe-types, because that is one of the biggest lies that still festers in the mainstream public consciousness even to this day. The truth is (there is that ugly word again...), that this era and its events was on par with the American Revolution, with the Civil War, Women's Suffrage, the Civil Right's marches of MLK and Malcolm X for desegregation, and anything else we may consider a historically significant American-defining period or event.
So, there were many triumphs: the blacks and women and minorities got their rights, laws were passed, the system was reformed to a great extent, the war in Vietnam eventually was called off (and all of Vietnam today is communist, so unlike Korea we did in fact lose that one), the culture in whole became more liberal and sexually unrestricted, etc.
But the counter-culture movement itself, that rage against the dying of the light which represented the struggle and opposition to the madness and sterility of the 50's... it itself actually failed and died out, allowing many of those elements of the dreadful 50's to resurface and take root again.
As early as the 70's, hippies and wild rock n roll had already become mainstreamed and commercialied, the styles and musics and accessories worth big money now, it became an industry, a fashion, merely, while the spirit behind those things that initially spurned them into being faded away, leaving only the glitzy, stereotypical shell behind.
By the 80's the death of the counter-culture era was all but absolute, as American culture sank into a sort of jaded Cold War exhaustion and receded internally again, choosing to divert themselves instead with abysmal, catchy electronic pop music and a copycat glut of soulless glam rock, cocaine usage skyrocketed, the age of wall street greed was born as much more than any other time in history a dominant and persistent 'money and elite worshiping culture' arose and settled in, with- just like in the 50's- a well dressed person with a nice big house and a couple shiny cars was the height of envy and respect among Americans.
In the 90's it was more of the same, except the music got way better, with the downside that hip-hop and gangster rap (I myself love it, I play the guitar and love all forms of music) became sooo prevalent and popular that the styles and attitudes of young people all across the country increasingly became more hardened, ghetto, tough, wannabe-gangsta and criminal, with the addition side effect that whites and blacks became even more divided than say, the 60's and 70's where tremendous progress was made in that respect.
And except for a couple new trends in television and music here and there, a couple major national events and a couple more wars, culturally speaking, we are *still* stuck in the 80's, except that it's the post-90's 80's now, meaning the money worship, the heartless materialism and art/love-hating shallowness, the culture of casual sex and drug usage so widespread then and now is all still very much dominant, but of course unlike the 80's everyone tries to be tough now, all the young girls want to edgy and cool, and all the guys aim to appear indifferent and macho, generally speaking. Of course America is still celebrated for its diversity of people and personalities, and I agree that it should, but I'm only touching on dominant mainstream tenets and patterns, which I have always kept a close eye on and maintained a steady beat of its ongoing pulse.
So, history lesson's over.
Its 2010, I'm in present day Seattle, and even though i want to believe that we have progressed significantly, the truth of the matter, as far as anyone can observe all around here, is that a culture wherein the dominant theme is the ambition and social necessity of striving to get a good job, make as much money as possible, buy a huge suburban house, buy the latest model Dodge Ram truck or Ford Mustang, dress the same and talk the same, have similar opinions and affiliate with... ... yeah yeah, we've been here before, we know where this is going. Except that if you look around, this dominant cultural theme in Seattle is far more deeply rooted and broadly manifested here than any of the 'wonderful diversity and great people' baloney subsequent posters may try to argue counts just as much.
You know what, I like money and a big house and a nice car and all my shiny toys too, but the only difference is I know life also needs to be balanced out by the internal, the immaterial, the spiritual, the artistic... otherwise there is nothing but an empty, cold and impersonal culture of appearance and materialism, which is exactly the case here in the Eastside, and definitely also in downtown Seattle, and to a more diffused but nonetheless dominant form in all the outlying towns and suburbs as well.
In America as a whole, and definitely in Seattle, i can tell you that intellectuals, artists and free thinkers are a shunned, ostracized and quite plainly hated minority. I'm not speculating about this, I'm telling you, because I am all of those things, and I've spoken with others who share a similar story.
Why? I'll tell you why, because in truth modern day Seattle is on par with the morbid and oppressive culture of the 1950's in more ways than not. It's like I said in my other posts: all the pretty white people, striving to fit in and appear 'normal' to each other, chasing the same empty, materialistic ideals, wearily judging all around them as to whether they 'belong' or not and then taking the appropriate action... it's all the same cultural sickness as the 50's, that coldness and mechanization and repulsion of art, diversity, self-expression and emotional openness that the progressive American movement of the 60's stood for, even with all the hippies and drugs and music aside, ignore that stuff, its irrelevant, really.
... ... ...
So... i will be in Brasil shortly, and this is my last post on this forum, so you won't have to hear from me or most likely anybody who sounds like me anytime soon.
But if I were you, I would watch very closely your beloved little Seattle and its precious little culture you find so satisfactory, just like the all the normal pretty people of the 50's would claim they too loved their cities and their way of life down to the grain, because there are in fact forces all around you, right now, who seek to destroy it piece by piece, to shred it apart and start all over, and I'm not talking about terrorists...
I'm talking, again, about your children.
Who do you think got fed up with the 50's way of life enough to nearly burn the country to the ground to change it? The elderly? Middle-aged working professionals? No, it was mostly the young, the newly matured children of the prime adults of the 50's. And mark my words, just as surely as night follows day and history inevitably repeats itself, the 'next' American generation, whether that be your children, or your grandchildren, or their brood farther down the line... they, unlike you, will *not* be satisfied with the status quo, content to simply fit in the current way of life as you know it, the present state of Seattle as we know it. If we're still in America, then there will *always* come a generational divide where the young revolt and throw away or amend old and archaic ways.
I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow, or next year or even next decade, but if you're fooling yourself that Seattle or even modern day America is just great and perfect the way it is, just wait to see what future Americans have to say about that. You may just turn out to be catastrophically wrong when they finally arrive one day and turn your perfect little world upside down.
That is after all, the American way, and if you're in denial that that's going to happen, or if it's even possible, I think you've forgotten what country you live in, go back and read more history.
As for me, I'll be in Brasil soon enough writing my novels in English, always in English first, on themes of revolution, culture and romance, all more or less wrapped up together, and waiting, patiently waiting for the future.
And we'll see who wins out in the end: your belief that Seattle is juuuusst super and nothing's terribly wrong, you know, the stale 50's "everything's okey dokey, nothing but a bunch of happy normal here!" self-deceiving attitude, or... my belief that the next American generation isn't stupid, and they will always continually, era after era, strive to improve the state and the culture, by clamor and force if necessary, and that thus the Seattle as you know it is inescapably doomed to morph into a different beast altogether.
We'll see... if you're satisfied with things the way they are... enjoy it while it lasts.
You guys enjoy your little forum here, I've seen a lot worse online before, it's not a bad site. Thanks for talking.
"Cathartic"... Sure, ok. But I'm a writer, yeah, like a real one, I actually write, it's what I do, working on a trilogy of novels daily. You know, it's one of those things I mentioned so 'extensively' about myself, as you're keen to point out.
And yes, if I'm going to write that much on a highly controversial topic about other people living all around me, which is easy and enjoyable for me as far as the writing goes, I'll admit, yes, I think it's only fair to reveal a little about myself, so I can be scrutinized on par with how much I dish out.
@Polyglott, &
@Inkpoe, &
to anybody else who comes after who wishes to indulge in a similar line of thinking as these two...
Great individuals aside, and yes I have met some outstanding *individuals* here in Seattle too, the culture, if that is our focused subject, is ultimately its own separate animal. Not to sound condescending, but if you read enough history and anthropology it quickly becomes evident that a people, or a culture, as a whole, as a collective which moves and acts as one organism at the largest scale observable, is far greater than the sum of its parts and has its own distinct attributes and modus operandi separate from any one constituent individual which comprises it on the microcosmic level. I hate to get all fancy with the terminology on you, I'm no intellectual braggard, I only use English as efficiently and functionally as best suits me. Check the English again if you're thinking that, you'll find I'm actually saying something with it...
In other words, if we look and analyze cultures and populations holistically for the whole, not reductionistically for the parts, we see that a culture like Seattle exists in its current form irrespective of any great individuals, or if Mother Theresa is your neighbor or Ghandi mows my lawn. Jesus could be my local friendly Starbucks barista and JFK my barber, would that change Seattle culture? Well, so long as these benevolent historical ghosts retained their character but not their fame (Jesus himself as the world knows him might attract *some* attention, after all) then, no, of course it wouldn't. Seattle would still remain just as cold and inhospitable, even if the Dalai Lama is your Project Manager back at the office and you both play poker on Thursday nights together with Thoreau and old Lincoln, and if *your* life is subsequently just so peachy.
Culture is the atmosphere you breathe, do you understand that, it is the quality and variety of the social environment which exists as a particular nearly inexplicable synergy of all human activities and behaviors combined, and can be neither redeemed nor worsened by either the saintliness or the devilishness of any one of its component citizens at one given time or another, or even a handful, or even many dozens or hundreds all together. It is something larger than us all which evolves with time, with many historical forces and precedents having slowly and almost mysteriously shaped what our culture is over time, and yet despite how ambiguous and lofty it sounds, it affects everyone, shapes their mentalities, outlines the pace and methods of their livelihoods.
The concepts above condensed: culture affects and determines individual members pertaining to it, almost incalculably more than those same individuals are able to each in their own manner and liking affect their overriding culture.
So... yes, the Seattle CULTURE is still cold, unwelcoming, difficult to live in and socially inhospitable to outsiders or lively, unique personalities in general who come here with the sheer audacity of expecting to be the same simple, folksy and affable sorts they've never ever had a problem being before, like they were able to heinously get away with in their respective backwater homelands whence they hail; clueless and colloquial visitors from all over who don't *get*, out of thickness maybe, the poor confused things they are, that they may not be cool or trendy enough to hang in Seattle, and that this necessitates they *change* in order to fit in, but not being as well schooled and cosmopolitan as the locals here they are slow to accept these mandates upon themselves, the ungrateful troglodytes. ESPECIALLY when they fail to laugh at some horribly obscure insider reference or joke in a posh little get together at some overly dressed swanky downtown bar and are thus frowned upon because of it, they should know better, the simplistic fools!
Sarcasm? Not fond of it, never use it, myself.
Lamentably, it may be even more difficult and agonizing to a score of legion of locals and natives who have simply been miserable or depressed here for longer, though I'm sure with them the often nebulous state of being many of them experience has become so pathological for so long they may not even be fully aware of their own blighted discontent, sort of like a chimp born inside a zoo, to whom the endless canopy and green mirage of the forest is not even a dream, let alone his rightfully intended habitat, having nill conception of the place.
Even if Einstein and Mark Twain both trim your hedges on Saturdays and chat your up about astrophysics and literature to your great delight, that doesn't change the social FACT that Kirkland, as a whole, is generally a snobby place where people don't care about much outside of their immediate little bubble of life and will rarely if ever extend themselves to open conversation and exchange on an equal level with a relative stranger. And it doesn't change the social FACT that most locals and natives will immediately begin to spread rumors and slander your good name if they find out you're from California, or Mexico, or Africa, or, you know what, that's a pretty big list, and I've been an insider in many of those unfortunate conversations where I've heard the uglier side of the predominantly white populations' racial and regional biases... but I'll digress and leave that one flame-starter to rest, for now..
*Do* You understand these concepts, and why your arguments don't hold much weight (no offense, I'm purely academically speaking here)? Please, think deeply on all this before posting again restating the same tired rejoinders.
And as for Brasil, there are enough pimps, prostitutes, gangsters, drugpushers, thieves, cons, hustlers, sharks, murderers and slavedrivers to give any slum in Vegas or ancient Rome a run for their money... but you know what? It's still Brasil. And if you know much about the cultures of the world, you may also know that most of them are far older and more deeply rooted in their ways and traditions than a mere mob of modern criminals and psychopaths in the gangrenously infected slum of one metropolis or another can ever hope to displace or *seriously* tarnish, though I admit there are corners of Brasil I never want to visit. No, the people there are not perfect either, by no means are %100 of Brasilians likable people. But in Brasil the atmosphere as a whole is so enjoyable as a whole that these sour remainders in the population do not spoil the meal, and are thus forgettable negative elements.
Reciprocally, the few or even the many decent souls in Seattle cannot salvage and rescue, apparently, proven by the experience of the many, what is altogether an abysmal place to exist. It is a place which feels to many who come here with an otherwise marked optimism like a burdensome, lethargic weight that drains their good spirits and eventually rusts and breaks their glee and drive, due to all their initial zeal and energy hitting flat against every surface and node and stranger they bump against up to the point they feel useless and exasperated and simply stop trying... UNLESS, of course, you are indeed one of these privileged 'insiders' we all hear about and secretly envy on our darkest nights. That is, if you are (hopefully) white, emotionally subdued, have an established network of peers, friends and loved ones that you neither wish to expand nor contract are are satisfied with the status quo in a city-level society that frankly, reminds me of 1950's America more than anything else I can think of. Ahhh, the 50's: McCarthyism, the Korean War and the very beginning of the mass, televised commercial homogenization of the American public, good times, good times...
And furthermore, if you are one of these insiders speaking with pity and lack of understanding in your tone to anyone who comes here as an unwitting adventurer or 'hapless transplant', heh, unaware of the true dismal nature of the place prior to their arrival, and then becomes increasingly disaffected and vocal about the shoddy and subhuman treatment they receive wholesale- which by the way is totally out of their control- then are you not also a self-evident part of the problem? (Rhetorical...)
Do you not contribute to what is to any outsider an OBVIOUS systematic social cancer if you have your little perfectly content and neatly organized life and network of colleagues, and in your satiated bliss you fail to sympathize or even comprehend the hardship, anxiety and uncertainty that soooo many people of all backgrounds and native birthplaces seem to unanimously exclaim upon *trying* as best they know to simply integrate and start enjoying life here already, only to never see that most basic of needs and desires even closed to being fulfilled, and then chastising them about how they must "have the wrong attitude, or aren't appreciating all there is to love here", just because your life is great and you don't care about their confounded and innocent failings to enjoy the same, except to casually respond "Oh, I'm sorry you don't like it, good luck wherever you go next." ? (Very, very rhetorical...)
You know what- the answer to those questions are so very painfully and immediately obvious to anyone other than a Seattle insider who is already well established and happy in their own corner and mode of life and who thus refuses or is self-convinced that there is no great issue here to make a commotion out of, that in fact, THAT, and them, are at the very heart of the problem. I'm not talking about you two or anyone like you personally as being 'problems', of course, I speak in conceptual terms.
And don't be sorry for me, by the way, please spare me... or anyone else who comes here with great promise and intrepid hope in their hearts, only to be reviled and outcasted for the rich wealth of personality they bring to the table, whereas in so many parts of the world even mediocre outsiders are a source of curiosity and cause for invitation.
As for me? I'll be in my beach house in Brasil in a year or so, property is not expensive there when purchased with an ample amount of American dollars, and I'm already a dual citizen. Oh, and my family owns a large farm in the deep south of the country, next to Uruguay, flat and muddy half the year but quiet, green and spacious nonetheless, so on weekends I'll drive down there and ride horses, have barbecues next to the barn with freshly slaughtered spit-roast lamb with all the farmfolk from miles around all invited. And all the while I can run my company from anywhere in the world with just a laptop and internet, so I can travel as much as my bank account allows, which will fast grow if current business trends persist. No, I wouldn't exactly be sorry for me.
One curious demographic I might show pity to if I were you, however, is the young, in specific, the next generation of Seattlelites: your very children, and I don't mean that as a petty insult because you're their parents.
No, i say that because the children of Seattle will be born and grow up here, and they too may become successful and well-adjusted insiders, you know, the smiling, pretty people standing in the crowd who seem like they have all the friends and parties to go to while another local boy or girl walks past wondering how come they never got the same chances to 'enjoy the good life' as their more photogenic and so sublimely 'normal' counterparts seem to partake of... but all in all, either way, they will all, even the ones who seem priviliged and satisfied, be deprived of a hardy and wholesome culture to live in, and maybe most of them won't ever even know it, having no outside reference, which is all the more pitiable for how helpless it truly is to be both miserable as so many of the young here are, without a hint of doubt as to how they feel, so plain they project it on their poor lonely faces, as children and teens are wont to do, and yet oblivious as to how or why, just stuck there, now knowing what to do about it, where to go to fix it, who to talk to, with nobody ever asking them what's wrong or talking to find out.
Depression, anyone? Suicidal tendencies? Alcoholism and drug-use? Over-prescription and over-usage of mental-chemistry-altering pharmaceuticals? Huge big fat ugly list of social ills unprecedented in the same type and concentration found here in most other American cities? No... no problems here... your children will be juuuust fine
Simple things, that any half-naked 'savage' in a deep-jungle tribe in the Congo or Amazon knows of. SIMPLE THINGS that any 'primitive' Eskimo is familiar with as they huddle for warmth in their igloos, scrambling to fish another catch and survive another week off of seal blubbler, you know... simple things... that any smelly and ruddy Mongolian herdsmen and his nomadic rabble of dirty-cheeked offspring take for granted, like being able to relax and take laughter and communal merriment in daily doses as they sit around the fire sharing thoughts and feelings, trading stories, passing down family wisdom, like so many of those 'barbaric' natives all around the world consume heedlessly without even having to *think* about it. Because for those ignorant hethans of the undeveloped world, though they may have to struggle and literally fight and hunt for their daily meat in a way we can only read about or watch in some National Geographic special with gruesome fascination, well, all those things we Westerners fumble with and cry about so often like having trusted neighbors, love and physical intimacy, family, friends, allies, good food and health, sport and the thrill of the wild are so commonplace and natural parts of growing up and life in general for them, despite their incredible hardships never knowing depression or unhappiness of any long and persistent sort... those natives being such husky and adaptive, emotionally resilient breeds of human, that surely they would be just as confused as to how we complain and cause each other such social everyday misery and malcontent as we are confused how they could run around the jungle half-naked and not pine for any great lack!
But surely the highly educated and commendably civilized members of your wonderful Seattle pocket of humanity will never endure grief for lack of these laughably simple things, no?
Like I said, pity your Seattle children instead, they collectively will need all your love and concern... and much, much more to help their plight from cradle to the grave living here, believe me. I know because I've been living among them, and amidst my rage and condemnation even i cannot help but feel great pity for them, knowing where I am headed and where most of them are fated to have to stay...
Just sayin'
Wow. If you talk that much on your dates, no wonder Seattle was not a good scene for you. If a woman was hot for you at the beginning of the date those embers would have had plenty of time to cool off by the end of it.
Yeah HaplessT, people only shun you because you are a minority. It has nothing at all to do with you coming across as an arrogant, babbling, know it all, with an ego the size of the Rainier. Nope, it's because you are a minority. I don't know, but my life experiences tell me that those who go around bragging about their intellectual prowess are usually upset because they think they are cranially superior to the rest of us, but have nothing to show for it in life.
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