Official "Seattle Freeze" Discussion Thread (Bellevue: place to live, moving)

[internat]

Not really. It persists in the societies. I have grown up in Sweden. Scandinavians discuss it in daily conversations. You can get it even in Stockholm. It is stronger in rural Scandinavia. Larger cities will have international influences. It is probably stronger in Sweden than Denmark, which is said to be more continental. Elitisim is not accepted. More individuality is a recent thing in Scandinavia. It is only a few decades old.

There is a lot of conformism in Scandinavia. You can observe it in how one is expected to behave in public and the way people dress. People are also a little jealous of each other. One is not supposed to show off wealth. You can also read about "lagom". There is no exact translation for the word in English. I guess moderation is the closest translation. It is really egalitarianism. No one should be better. This mentality was prevalent before Social Democracy took over Sweden. This is why it is so difficult for outsiders to know how they should behave. They do not understand the unwritten set of principles one is expected to follow.

More on Jante: http://www.waste.org/~xtal/red/jante.html

I believe America is more Anglo-Saxon. The two cultures share certain characters, such as protestant work ethnic and being cold and polite rather than friendly to strangers. Both are basically a little xenophobic and insular because they are geographically (except Denmark) cut off from continental Europe. People behaving this way (whether American, Scandinavian or something else) will be alien to the majority. That is what I have understood from this thread. Also another thing, success is a very American concept. Americans judge each other more on how successful they are. The English are obsessed with social class. The Scandinavians have their unwritten laws of conduct.

Originally Posted by 41Willys

The Jante Law is a little dated no?

[toughguy]

Originally Posted by 41Willys

[/b]

I was on Houston Steet a little while ago @ 11pm. There were more people on the streets then there were during the day. (no kidding) Ages 19-late 20's thrive in NYC from 11pm to 5-6am. The saying is true, its the city that never sleeps! Sunday mornings on the other hand are probably the least crowded. But after 10am it starts in all over again.

When I was in Manhattan a couple of years ago, I was downtown by the stock exchange around 1 AM and the sidewalks were empty. That is to be expected since downtown is largely a commercial district. If you go up towards Tribeca, Soho etc..than you will start to see the bustle. I am not trying to sh** on NYC by any means, its my fave city in the U.S. and I would move there if there were an opportunity to do so (like if I was a professional athlete or a hedge fund manager....you have to make that much to live there).... I am only partially joking, but you get what you pay for.

[41Willys]

Originally Posted by toughguy

When I was in Manhattan a couple of years ago, I was downtown by the stock exchange around 1 AM and the sidewalks were empty. That is to be expected since downtown is largely a commercial district. If you go up towards Tribeca, Soho etc..than you will start to see the bustle. I am not trying to sh** on NYC by any means, its my fave city in the U.S. and I would move there if there were an opportunity to do so (like if I was a professional athlete or a hedge fund manager....you have to make that much to live there).... I am only partially joking, but you get what you pay for.

LOL,, because there is nothing there to do @ nite. (Bars/Clubs, ect..)
Go there during the day though.

But if you go over a few blocks to South St. Sea port I'm sure there's a little bit of a crowd. I believe there's a few micro brews down there, plus the staten Island ferry is rite there and is a popular/free way to access Manhatten.

[41Willys]

Originally Posted by internat

Not really. It persists in the societies. I have grown up in Sweden. Scandinavians discuss it in daily conversations. You can get it even in Stockholm. It is stronger in rural Scandinavia. Larger cities will have international influences. It is probably stronger in Sweden than Denmark, which is said to be more continental. Elitisim is not accepted. More individuality is a recent thing in Scandinavia. It is only a few decades old.

There is a lot of conformism in Scandinavia. You can observe it in how one is expected to behave in public and the way people dress. People are also a little jealous of each other. One is not supposed to show off wealth. You can also read about "lagom". There is no exact translation for the word in English. I guess moderation is the closest translation. It is really egalitarianism. No one should be better. This mentality was prevalent before Social Democracy took over Sweden. This is why it is so difficult for outsiders to know how they should behave. They do not understand the unwritten set of principles one is expected to follow.

More on Jante: http://www.waste.org/~xtal/red/jante.html

I believe America is more Anglo-Saxon. The two cultures share certain characters, such as protestant work ethnic and being cold and polite rather than friendly to strangers. Both are basically a little xenophobic and insular because they are geographically (except Denmark) cut off from continental Europe. People behaving this way (whether American, Scandinavian or something else) will be alien to the majority. That is what I have understood from this thread. Also another thing, success is a very American concept. Americans judge each other more on how successful they are. The English are obsessed with social class. The Scandinavians have their unwritten laws of conduct.

Interesting, I'm , well my ancestors are from Holland. It's wierd but I can some
how relate to the cold but polite thing. I gotta read the links you provided.

[MK1971]

I think there's merit to what Internat posted -- I've heard of Jante law before and the conformity/judgemental element seems on the mark for Seattle and probably Minnesota.

I know some people from Denmark and they have this interesting take on how things should be done while in their home country but relax and mellow out quite a bit when traveling.

I've also noticed that people from Seattle loosen up a bit when they go to Vegas or LA, for example.

I've also noticed a lot of Swedish, Finnish, and Norwegian flag stickers on cars here; I think there's a strong point to be made about the Scandinavian immigrants (and earlier settlers to the region) having brought some of their culture with them and passed it down through a few generations, giving Seattle some of its cultural traits.

By the way, there's nothing wrong with egalitarianism but, the U.S. is the U.S. and WA isn't a socialist enclave in our country. So, you still get none of the benefits of a socialist country like free universal healthcare, you still get the materialism you find all over the U.S. but, here it seems, you also get a little Jante law attitude among other quirks to further dull down your gloomy day.

Ironically, talk to anyone from here about the area's accomplishments and they usually point to its wealthiest native son.

[41Willys]

More on Jante: http://www.waste.org/~xtal/red/jante.html

It's a little out there especially in today's society but still believable.

Does the freeze resemble this at all?

[menumber1]

Firstly, I just want to be the first to say, Seattle is not the place to move to if "ethnic diversity" is on your list of desired urban nuances.

Lastly, I just want to be the first to say, pay attention to the whole "Seattle Freeze" talk. If you're someone worth being friends with (of course most people are) you will have a problem finding friends here. peace.

[seattlerain]

Originally Posted by menumber1

Firstly, I just want to be the first to say, Seattle is not the place to move to if "ethnic diversity" is on your list of desired urban nuances.

Lastly, I just want to be the first to say, pay attention to the whole "Seattle Freeze" talk. If you're someone worth being friends with (of course most people are) you will have a problem finding friends here. peace.

I'm a little confused here. You say that most people are worth being friends with then you go on to day that you will have a problem finding friends here.

Can you elaborate...?

[swsha4]

I know I keep harping on this, but you get what you give. I've been all over and it's pretty much true everywhere. True here too. If you are open to people, they will open up with you. If you are reserved they leave you to yourself.

I've found Seattle to be more friendly as a whole than a lot of places I've lived, but I do think people may mistake politeness for coldness. People here are polite. They do not like to get in other people's space. If you do not make eye contact or smile, they will respect your solitude. I have never had someone I smiled at give me the cold shoulder here, and that's pretty amazing when you think about it.

So if you are feeling some sort of "freeze" check yourself. Are you being friendly?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by swsha4

I know I keep harping on this, but you get what you give. I've been all over and it's pretty much true everywhere. True here too. If you are open to people, they will open up with you. If you are reserved they leave you to yourself.

I've found Seattle to be more friendly as a whole than a lot of places I've lived, but I do think people may mistake politeness for coldness. People here are polite. They do not like to get in other people's space. If you do not make eye contact or smile, they will respect your solitude. I have never had someone I smiled at give me the cold shoulder here, and that's pretty amazing when you think about it.

So if you are feeling some sort of "freeze" check yourself. Are you being friendly?

I'm not real big on "blaming the victim". Some poor character saves up all his/her money to move out to Seattle to fulfil his/her dreams and then no one will befriend him and it's his fault? Sometimes, I think it's just pure luck, with co-workers, neighbors, etc.