Vermont vs Seattle area (Tacoma, Bothell: sales, houses, employment)

[foxy209]

I have read all the posts about moving to Seattle and moving to Vermont, well not all, but a lot. I would like a honest answer that leaves out excessive negativity, please. I have lived in AZ for 22 years and have wanted to move about as long. The people here are transient and my husband and I have had a tough time making lasting friendships. We have a wonderful 7 year old who takes riding lessons, karate, and keyboarding. We moved here to a school closer to the house because I am ill, and some days I have a hard time driving too far. My husband has been applying for transfer all over the country. We want to move somewhere that the parents are nice and has a real sense of community. Well, we have an offer from Seattle and possibly one for Vermont, near dartmouth 9 across a bridge into NH). We are so mixed and cant make a decision where to move. I am from Chicago, but I have been in AZ for 22 years, almost half my life. My husband is from Boston, but has been in AZ for 12 years.

Please help: we want a nice place to live, 3 beds. 2 bath, and a nice backyard. We want a good school that has a great community. We aren't wealthy but my husband makes a good living. Our top price for a house is $250k. I am disabled so I don't work, but I like being involved in my daughter's school/activities.

Thoughts???
Vermont - White River junction area or Seattle / Tacoma area.
Neither of us are afraid to get cold, but my daughter has never felt anything below 30 degrees.

[Apathizer]

Hmm... Tough issue given your situation.

I'm not that familiar with VT, but can almost guarantee in terms of housing you'll almost certainly get more for your money. For your price you'll get a fairly marginal home in Seattle, though if you go little on the outskirts you'll certainly get more.

Seattle has a pretty transient population as well, but that mainly among 20-somethings. I think the people here with family are far more settled, and tend to stay longer.

In terms of weather, that's tough. VT has 4 distinct seasons, which is nice, but it get much colder in the winter. While Seatle is overcast, drizzly, and cool Oct-May, it seldom gets below freezing, and almost never gets below about 25.

Good luck, sorry I can't be of more help...

[ShastatoBaker]

The number one question, of course, is: is money a concern? Because, as I am sure you know, you're dealing with one of the nation's major regional and economic centers in Seattle... and the closest one of those to Vermont is Boston. I'm not saying it's impossible to find work in Vermont, but it's not going to be easy. It's a small state population-wise, and White River Junction isn't even an decent-sized in-state business center when compared to, say, Burlington. Again, if money isn't a factor, than none of this matters. If it is, however, Seattle is going to win hands down.

Beyond that, it really comes down to what you like. Vermont doesn't have the ocean. It's not Arizona-like in terms of how far it is from the beach, but it's not like you have Puget Sound or anything there. The mountains in New England are, by in large, fairly unimpressive -- mostly big hills by western standards.

Having said that, if you want to get away from people; if you want to experience a slice of life that at times feels somewhat bygone, you're going to find that in New England and not Seattle. New England has small villages, park greens, beautiful, white-walled churches, and rustic barns out the wazoo. The place does cute and charming better than anywhere else in the U.S. The people are also markedly different from the PNW. I don't know if I one-hundred percent buy into the concept of the Seattle Freeze, but it does seem like people in the PNW are 'friendly but distant.' Conversely, the people in New England are 'distant but friendly.' And this isn't simple semantics. If the Seattle Freeze is to be believed, than the people here will oftentimes only let you know them in a purely superficial way, but it will be harder to form deep bonds. People in Vermont (and Maine, NH, Mass, etc.) are gruff and surly, but they're also honest and wholesome, once you chip through that hard candy coating.

I also think the weather in any part of Vermont is simply a cut above Seattle. I'm don't believe you said where you are from in Arizona, but I'm going to assume it's single-season Phoenix? (and if I'm totally wrong, and you're from some place like Williams or Flagstaff that also experiences 4 very clearly-defined seasons, my bad). Basically, in terms of climate, it can be summed up like this: both Seattle and Vermont are very, very different from most of Arizona. But how they are different is key. Seattle has... I would say, three and a half seasons. It never really becomes winter here, at least with regards to how winter is understood in most of the midwestern and northeastern United States. Fall is very similar to spring in western Washington, meaning rain, or mist, or overcast. Snow is rare and (apparently) makes people go slightly insane.

Vermont, on the other hand, has four seasons (some say five, if you count the local 'mud season'). You will see rain and snow and thunderstorms and even the rare lost tropical system. It will get colder than in Seattle, but you will often see the sun in the winter. That's not to say there aren't grey or very rainy days, but it doesn't generally hit Vermont in continuous, multi-week waves like it does in the PNW. And that's not to say that Seattle is all rain, or all gloom, or that it is even as crushing as many of the locals would have you believe. But it is wet here... a lot. And those long strings of very damp days may, in a way, start to feel like Arizona's endless blocks of 110 degree heat to you after a while. Both places are, if nothing else, fairly predictable when it comes to what the sky and the air are doing. Vermont is much less so.

Overall, I think they are very, very different places, both possessing strong qualities and excellent attributes. You said that Arizona bothers you because of the transient population, and that, to me, screams Seattle, where so many of the people are from California or elsewhere. Vermont, on the other hand, is largely populated by hard-nosed survivors who somehow manage to grind out a living in a state that has no real heavy industry or major economic center.

Honestly, if you wanted to split the difference, I would recommend Portland, ME, or Manchester, NH, or even Hartford, CT, all of which are small cities, but still have many of the conveniences you are used to from Arizona, while possessing much of the same charms of Vermont. White River Junction, for you, is going to be shocking when it comes to a cultural shift... and some people find change of that magnitude uncomfortable. Then again, if you're so eager to escape Arizona, perhaps the polar opposite -- and I can imagine none more extreme in the lower 48 than Vermont -- may be just the ticket. Vacation there first. Then make up your mind.

*Edit* Housing prices are close in both places, which is to say that $250k isn't going to buy you a mansion or anything. The more isolated you go in either place, the cheaper things will be, although in Seattle that probably means somewhere too far to commute to the city, whereas in Vermont, there is no city.

[Hemlock140]

I cannot vote for either, though I live in the Seattle area. While our lows are not below 30 that often, maybe 10-20 days of 20s at most, the only homes in your price range are in areas that I would not recommend for all but the bravest young people without kids especially school age. For what you want here figure minimum $300,000 and up. Vermont is far too cold though the home prices are better.

[Seacove]

OP, have you ever spent time in Seattle? It's very beautiful but you might find the overcast days (especially if you're used to sunny Arizona) to be harder to get used to. Some people really struggle with it and ultimately leave. Vermont is also very beautiful and much more "small town" which may be what you're looking for. We have rain and Vermont is snow all winter which your daughter may have a lot of fun with. As for the Seattle "freeze", I've never felt it but I get what people are talking about. I just think it feels normal. We also found New Englanders to be very friendly. They may not always be politically correct but where in Seattle, we like time to to get to know someone, there, they were quick to make social invitations (if that matters).

[foxy209]

My husband will have a position before we leave Az, so the job situation isn't the issue. We live in Mesa, which is a city near Phoenix. I grew up in Chicago, so cold doesn't scare me, maybe my daughter.

I want to get away from the concrete jungle that is phoenix, az. I want to be near lakes, rivers, trees, and 4 seasons. I do have medical issues so that plays into factoring, but I want to live in a smaller town, where you know people around you.

Thanks for responses!

[mkarch]

Originally Posted by Hemlock140

I cannot vote for either, though I live in the Seattle area. While our lows are not below 30 that often, maybe 10-20 days of 20s at most, the only homes in your price range are in areas that I would not recommend for all but the bravest young people without kids especially school age. For what you want here figure minimum $300,000 and up. Vermont is far too cold though the home prices are better.

You can find some smaller homes and homes needing varying amounts of work for $350k in decent areas. Anything turn key will be small, but these houses are out there.

The houses on the market under $550k (in desirable parts of seattle) have been in pretty marginal condition since we started looking last year. Eventually we just accepted that inventory is thin and pretty much everything that isn't new needs work.

Whoops...$250k... The house will need significant work at that price point. Doable, but you're probably going to end up in Bothell.

[stevo6]

I vote Vt. I have been to both places but have spent much more time in Vt. You'll find it a slower paced , less expensive lifestyle, with a fairly stable traditional structure. Don't get me wrong, its not Mayberry- still close enough to Boston to have a fairly progressive population; its not cheap there either, but cheaper to live than Seattle. The Dartmouth College hospital is the premier hospital in the region. You and your kids will enjoy easy access to rivers, lakes, and mountains, and while the mountains in Vt are not the Cascades, they are rugged enough and certainly beautiful.
Since you're considering a spot right near the NH border you may want to look at the tax structure of both states before buying. NH has no sales tax and no state income tax but they get you on your assets which are taxed heavily. They're also somewhat more conservative politically speaking.

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Why WRJ? The employment situation in Vermont is bleak everywhere but WRJ is definitely among the bottom. You will be hard-pressed to get jobs that can afford a 250k house which will not go far in VT.

Go where the jobs are.

[bxtx]

Seattle sounds horrible for you. I have lived in Burlington VT and I grew up in Seattle.

Seattle is concrete jungle
Seattle is not 4 seasons (10 months fall, 2 months summer)
In Seattle if you live in a small town your husband will be commuting 1.5 hours each way
Seattle does not get very cold, but I think that 35 and wet is much MUCH worse than 20 and dry.

VT has nicer people, better weather, slower lifestyle.