Few Questions About Seattle (Bellevue, Redmond: real estate, rental, HOA)

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by zberch

First the poster is talking about Seattle not bellevue. If a family makes $125k your in the top 20% income bracket. You can easily afford a $500k house, two cars, college funds, vacations. People live in these bubbles of wealth and think they are normal its pretty crazy.

Totally disagree with you. You might be able to do a few of these things, but certainly not all of them. Actually, let me rephrase this: You can't do all these things AND appropriately save and invest for retirement, which, in my opinion, is what separates the middle and upper-middle classes.

[SaltyDawg]

People are absolutely insane.

If you think making $125k is "middle class", you are lost.

$125k for a family of 4 in Seattle will provide you a sensational lifestyle. No, you might not get to have two BMW's and send your kids to private school, but that isn't middle class, either.

You will get to choose a nice neighborhood with plenty of house/condo/apartment, utilize the improving infrastructure, and have spending money.

Good God - if a 6-figure income in any city outside of NYC or San Francisco is suddenly lower-class, I need serious re-calibration. Or you need serious help with your ability to set a budget.

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by SaltyDawg

People are absolutely insane.

If you think making $125k is "middle class", you are lost.

$125k for a family of 4 in Seattle will provide you a sensational lifestyle. No, you might not get to have two BMW's and send your kids to private school, but that isn't middle class, either.

You will get to choose a nice neighborhood with plenty of house/condo/apartment, utilize the improving infrastructure, and have spending money.

Good God - if a 6-figure income in any city outside of NYC or San Francisco is suddenly lower-class, I need serious re-calibration. Or you need serious help with your ability to set a budget.

First of all, technically by numbers, yes, $125k is upper middle class, but does $125k afford you a "sensational" lifestyle? or the real question is, does it afford what most Americans agree is a middle class lifestyle? We could debate the definition but most agree that a middle class family should be able to save for retirement, put their kids in college, own a home, go on a vacation once or twice a year.

So let's talk about that. We can play with my numbers since I just redid them a couple weeks ago. Our gross income this year is about $162k. There are a few odds and ends with stocks that are not liquid, won't be liquified this year and are not in my calculations. Just to be clear: I don't think $125k is upper middle class. I do think that $150k can be.

Household income: $162k (gross) Condo: $355k (owned)

Mortgage: $1400
HOA's: $505
Homeowner insurance: $12
Utilities: $130 (monthly average)
Water/sewer/gas: $25 (???)
Cable: $55
Cell phones: $152
Household needs and groceries: $1000
Car repairs: $30 (monthly average)
Gas: $150
Auto insurance: $115
Auto registration: $10 (monthly average)
My tuition: $700-$1500 (depending on quarter, monthly average, including books, supplies and parking)
Beauty/barber: $25 (monthly average)
Movie rental (online): $25
Dining out/coffee shops/fast food: $300
Vacation fund: $800
Clothing purchases: $50
Home care: $25
Pet care: $30
Two 529 accounts: $1000
Retirement account: $500

This comes to about $7040 a month. Our take home pay is about $8520. We have about $1500-2k "extra" except ....

Some comments:

1) We don't use any childcare. I only attend school or work when my kids are in school. If two people are working full-time to generate this income there will be $800-1k monthly costs per child.
2) We hardly buy any clothes that are new, nor do I get my hair cut, colored, styled. I don't tan, wax, do aging treatments, etc..
3) We do not have any memberships to fitness facilities. We pay for swim classes at the city pool. Sometimes my husband does lap swims there.
4) We, nor our children, participate in any recreational sporting activities.
5) We do not have a single family home with a yard, we have a condo.
6) This budget does not cover the weird and annoying things in life, like an out-of-pocket medical or dental expense (we have two that came in this month for a total of $900).
7) Our lovely "vacation" fund doesn't actually go towards fun vacations, but to visit all our families that live out of state/country ($6k just to buy the flights). No Disney vacations.
8) We have no car payments. We still have a 2000 Toyota Echo and I drive a tiny Ford. Most families have a car payment
9) We don't pay any student loans. Many people, especially those who get advanced degrees, have to pay back student loans.
10) We don't drink any alcohol
11) We don't do summer camps
12) I clean my own house.... no maid service here

So where is the sensational lifestyle???
Where are the nights on the town...the symphony and theater tickets, ski trips, yoga classes, fine jewelry, tennis lessons, country club memberships, SUVs and BMWs, sleep-away camps for the kids and that $500k house?

It doesn't exist for us. We couldn't afford those things and yet we're "upper middle class".

Now take away $32k and create the "American Dream" lifestyle on $125k. Let's see it. I gave you a template, all you have to do is cut and paste.

[zberch]

So you have $1500 extra a month and your in school that costs you around $1000 and month. Meaning you could easily afford a $600k house plus a few BMW lease payments (which is mostly what people have driving around). crazy talk....

Read the following and realize your are living in a bubble.

http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/20/by-...-middle-class/

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/we.../income-upshot

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by zberch

So you have $1500 extra a month and your in school that costs you around $1000 and month. Meaning you could easily afford a $600k house plus a few BMW lease payments (which is mostly what people have driving around). crazy talk....

Read the following and realize your are living in a bubble.

[url=http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/20/by-the-numbers-the-incredibly-shrinking-american-middle-class/]By the Numbers: The Incredibly Shrinking American Middle Class | Smart Charts, What Matters Today | BillMoyers.com[/url]

[url=http://www.marketplace.org/topics/wealth-poverty/income-upshot]Income Upshot | Marketplace.org[/url]

Dude, read.

I didn't say "oh woes me!". I don't say we weren't in a good spot. I'm very grateful and thus, very careful with what we have.

BUT the question wasn't about a family living at $162k, it's about a family living at $125k. So again, take my numbers and reduce it by $32k and include many of the items in the comments #1-12 and tell me that it's "easy" and "sensational".

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by zberch

So you have $1500 extra a month and your in school that costs you around $1000 and month. Meaning you could easily afford a $600k house plus a few BMW lease payments (which is mostly what people have driving around). crazy talk....

Read the following and realize your are living in a bubble.

[url=http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/20/by-the-numbers-the-incredibly-shrinking-american-middle-class/]By the Numbers: The Incredibly Shrinking American Middle Class | Smart Charts, What Matters Today | BillMoyers.com[/url]

[url=http://www.marketplace.org/topics/wealth-poverty/income-upshot]Income Upshot | Marketplace.org[/url]

Your first example is not scaled to living in Seattle.

Your second example gets to the whole point of this conversation. For example, we afforded the same lifestyle (actually we had more: a house and yard a few blocks from a major university) on $4200 a month ($73k, gross) when we lived in Michigan.

[JenBP]

We lived in Vancouver/Portland metro for about a decade and loved it! I loved it as a 20-something yr old and still love it as a 40-something with kids! There are so many things to do. Tons of awesome outdoor possibilities. Now we live in Seattle metro and hate it. We are actually trying to get the heck out of here. We love our community, our neighbors, our favorite campground, etc. Our main complaint is the dark overcast skies. It's not that it has more 'measurable' rain than Portland, it is just the gray and the unpredictableness of the weather in spring, summer, fall. After 5 yrs of overcast skies we are headed to some sunshine in South Carolina. Wouldn't mind ending up back in Portland eventually though!

[seattlenextyear]

Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom

Dude, read.

I didn't say "oh woes me!". I don't say we weren't in a good spot. I'm very grateful and thus, very careful with what we have.

BUT the question wasn't about a family living at $162k, it's about a family living at $125k. So again, take my numbers and reduce it by $32k and include many of the items in the comments #1-12 and tell me that it's "easy" and "sensational".

You could easily be living in a $500k single family home with the money you're wasting on HOA dues. That's ridiculous.

[007jamesbond]

Originally Posted by purplerain112

$125K = upper middle class??? If you want to purchase a property in Bellevue today and still have a upper middle class lifestyle for a family of 4, $250K is more realistic.

I agree with this. With a family of four, if you want a upper middle class lifestyle, you better be making closer to 250K. 125K is a lot of money for one single person, but for a family of four it's not all that much. Especially here in the Seattle area.

[Salmonista]

Why is everyone talking about BMWs? The OP said they live a fairly minimalist lifestyle and don't have expensive taste in cars.

I'll tell you that my husband and I have minimalist/coupon clipper tendencies and we lived very comfortably in Burien with a household income around $110K. We had 1 car and no kids. (Not that I'm recommending OP live in Burien - it isn't known for having great schools.) So for comparison, I would imagine a family of 4 wanting to live in the city needs to make more than that to be upper middle class.