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Northern Marianas huh? You really want to use an off-shore, incredibly corrupt, remote territory home to some of the worst labor-abuse sweatshops anywhere as your shining example? A territory that gets to use "Made in USA" labels in spite of labor abuses, child prostitution, forced abortions, and child labor?
I would like to see your research. History shows that raising the minimum wage has very little effect on employment. Washington state has had the highest minimum wage in the country for over a decade now, and it also has one of the fastest growing economies and about average unemployment numbers. The minimum wage goes up every year in WA state, and the economy keeps growing while unemployment keeps shrinking.
Places like Georgia and Mississippi and Nevada and Arizona have much higher unemployment and much lower minimum wages. Washington DC also has much higher unemployment, while being the only place in the country with a higher minimum wage than Washington state. There seems to be zero direct correlation between minimum wage and unemployment rate or economic growth (many other factors are way more important).
5 state voted to increase their minimum wages in the previous mid-term elections and San Francisco also voted to increase their minimum wage to $15/hour. We'll see if their economies implode as well. :-)
By the time the $15/hour wage is fully in effect in Seattle (2021), the rest of the state will probably have a minimum wage of about $11.50/hour (the state level minimum wage automatically adjust every year for inflation), so Seattle's minimum will be quite a bit higher than neighboring cities, and I am sure it will lead to slightly higher prices in restaurants and such, but I doubt it will bring about the Armageddon some people seem to be predicting :-)
This is incorrect. A significant percentage of jobs in WA state are high-paying IT and engineering jobs. The state's minimum wage have little connection to the IT employees at Microsoft, Amazon, and Boeing. The cost of living here is also high, especially when it comes to home prices. Finally, WA is one of the few states in the union with zero income tax. That, along with the fact that Seattle is a hub for IT companies, is one of the main factors contributing to the state's job growth. Not the minimum wage.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatown1
This is incorrect. A significant percentage of jobs in WA state are high-paying IT and engineering jobs. The state's minimum wage have little connection to the IT employees at Microsoft, Amazon, and Boeing. The cost of living here is also high, especially when it comes to home prices. Finally, WA is one of the few states in the union with zero income tax. That, along with the fact that Seattle is a hub for IT companies, is one of the main factors contributing to the state's job growth. Not the minimum wage.
It's appropriate for the minimum wage here to be higher in order for the people working fast food, restaurants, hotels and retail to be able to afford to live here, so there are services for those high paid tech people. Despite being heavily liberal, the state government likes to keep large employers here.
They ignore it because that figure is laughable after 3 years (study was in 2011 -- the figure stated is 10.62) and honestly, even then it's suspect. Check pg. 17.
For a single adult, they assume rent is around 1000/mo. This will get you a 400 sq. ft. studio, or some back alley apartment/condo in a bad part of town. They assume that 52% of your income is going to rent.
Sounds like a great standard of living there. I can barely make ends meet in Seattle area on 16/hr without living like an absolute poor person (no phone, no internet, no transportation), and that's with someone living with me. If I didn't have those things I could save more and pay off student debt faster. But 11/hr.... no way. Not unless I lived with many other people and got food stamps. But that defeats the purpose of "self-sufficiency".
Plenty of officials have questioned where 15/hr came from. And it is arbitrary. Everyone already knows that.
Actually, they had an economist say that any reduction in poverty goes away after the 12/hour mark and anything more than that does no further good. They ignored her, and listened to the hipsters.
And yes, you can live on $11/hour. How? Simple: LIVE WITH ROOMMATES! I do it and it isn't that bad.
And what do you think is going to happen to the cost of living after Seattle ends up increasing starting salary for everyone by 60+%?
In the end, wages are relative. Which is why places like Texas have lower poverty than California when local cost of living is factored in.
And goes who is stuck with the bill? THE MIDDLE CLASS. They have to pay more for cost of living, pay more for the same goods, and get nothing in return. Someone making $16/hour now may get a raise to make up for what entry level people make, but if your salary is, let's say, 45,000 a year, you will most likely NOT get a raise and the cost of food, services and everything else will go up.
No matter how you think of it, this is the dumbest idea in the history of dumb ideas.
And no, I have no sympathy for college grads making minimum wage. Majority of them majored in BS like "Comparative history of Ideas" (an actual major at UW) and got what they deserved for their stupid decisions.
Northern Marianas huh? You really want to use an off-shore, incredibly corrupt, remote territory home to some of the worst labor-abuse sweatshops anywhere as your shining example? A territory that gets to use "Made in USA" labels in spite of labor abuses, child prostitution, forced abortions, and child labor?
You might want to rethink that, sport.
I never said they were perfect, but the fact remains that raising the MW made things go from bad, to worse. The same thing is guaranteed to happen here. I am just happy they phased it in so I have time to save up and move to a Red State. I'm think Charlotte, NC or Savannah Georgie or maybe Texas, like Houston. I am sure Sawant and her 15Now hipsters will be well received in Texas:
I would like to see your research. History shows that raising the minimum wage has very little effect on employment. Washington state has had the highest minimum wage in the country for over a decade now, and it also has one of the fastest growing economies and about average unemployment numbers. The minimum wage goes up every year in WA state, and the economy keeps growing while unemployment keeps shrinking.
Places like Georgia and Mississippi and Nevada and Arizona have much higher unemployment and much lower minimum wages. Washington DC also has much higher unemployment, while being the only place in the country with a higher minimum wage than Washington state. There seems to be zero direct correlation between minimum wage and unemployment rate or economic growth (many other factors are way more important).
Washington is expanding, but its expansion is obvious over thanks to this and other idiotic practices. And actually, when adjusted for local cost of living, the "red states" have less poverty:
Look where it is adjusted for local inflation: red states have less poverty. It doesn't matter how much you make, it matters the value of your money. If you move to a state where you make 10% less but food cost 18% less, gas 12% less and housing 20%, do you have more or less wealth?
Quote:
5 state voted to increase their minimum wages in the previous mid-term elections and San Francisco also voted to increase their minimum wage to $15/hour. We'll see if their economies implode as well. :-)
By the time the $15/hour wage is fully in effect in Seattle (2021), the rest of the state will probably have a minimum wage of about $11.50/hour (the state level minimum wage automatically adjust every year for inflation), so Seattle's minimum will be quite a bit higher than neighboring cities, and I am sure it will lead to slightly higher prices in restaurants and such, but I doubt it will bring about the Armageddon some people seem to be predicting :-)
This will not cause "The Purge" or anything, but so many people will go from unemployed to unemployable. Who the hell will hire an ex-felon at 15/hour? Who will hire a high school drop out at 15/hour? Who will hire a recent immigrant who doesn't speak much English at 15/hour?
And you can guarantee every burger flipping low-life from Wisconsin to California will be flocking to Seattle. They will come here thinking they can make it big with easy money, and end up broke, unable to find work, and stuck. Viola! Homeless goes up.
And yes, you can live on $11/hour. How? Simple: LIVE WITH ROOMMATES! I do it and it isn't that bad.
Exactly. You can't be self sufficient and own/rent your own place on that wage. That's not a "single adult" with 1000/mo rent. You're bringing your rent down to about 400 - 500/mo, which is more reasonable for that wage.
BTW, I don't think the 15/hr min wage is a good idea. I believe I made that case a couple pages back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk
And goes who is stuck with the bill? THE MIDDLE CLASS. They have to pay more for cost of living, pay more for the same goods, and get nothing in return. Someone making $16/hour now may get a raise to make up for what entry level people make, but if your salary is, let's say, 45,000 a year, you will most likely NOT get a raise and the cost of food, services and everything else will go up.
The middle class aren't the only people buying things. Your logic fails there. It'd go up for everyone, and the middle class would still make more money. If they did feel any pressure, they'd get raises, too. Generally people with higher wages are in a position to negotiate pay better (seeing as they got the higher wage in the first place). Rising cost of living is always going to affect the poor the strongest. If you ever think otherwise you're kidding yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk
And no, I have no sympathy for college grads making minimum wage. Majority of them majored in BS like "Comparative history of Ideas" (an actual major at UW) and got what they deserved for their stupid decisions.
Oh course. You see someone with a degree making minimum wage, obviously it's because they majored in "Comparative History of Ideas". You got all them grads pegged. Have a gold star.
Look where it is adjusted for local inflation: red states have less poverty. It doesn't matter how much you make, it matters the value of your money. If you move to a state where you make 10% less but food cost 18% less, gas 12% less and housing 20%, do you have more or less wealth?
Have you read Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court"? The protagonist(?) makes this same argument (fruitlessly) to a group of medieval peasants, and it's pretty entertaining.
Exactly. You can't be self sufficient and own/rent your own place on that wage. That's not a "single adult" with 1000/mo rent. You're bringing your rent down to about 400 - 500/mo, which is more reasonable for that wage.
"Self sufficient" means you pay your own bills and can survive without government assistance, NOT that you pay your own studio apartment rent. If you can afford to pay a share of your rent, you are self sufficient.
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The middle class aren't the only people buying things. Your logic fails there. It'd go up for everyone, and the middle class would still make more money. If they did feel any pressure, they'd get raises, too. Generally people with higher wages are in a position to negotiate pay better (seeing as they got the higher wage in the first place). Rising cost of living is always going to affect the poor the strongest. If you ever think otherwise you're kidding yourself.
First of all, how the hell should we believe that the middle class will see an increase in their incomes? They will not. Unlike minimum wage earners, who will make more money, the middle class will NOT make more money but see an increase in prices. Yes, this will hurt the poor with no jobs, but it will also hurt the middle class while the minimum wage earners will see prices go up but see a raise, so they will just end up right back where they started.
Quote:
Oh course. You see someone with a degree making minimum wage, obviously it's because they majored in "Comparative History of Ideas". You got all them grads pegged. Have a gold star.
There are DOZENS of idiotic majors, from sociology to fine art, from philosophy to women's studies, that will result in a lifetime of flipping burgers. That is why so many people with degrees are flipping burgers.
How many people flipping burgers have degrees in engineering? Chemistry? Nursing? Business management?
And in fact, the last recession created fewer lower wage jobs than the ones before it, so the whole "waaawww! There are no good jobs left!" line falls flat on its face:
As you can see, this recession created no higher a percentage of low wage jobs than those before it, and some recessions created more low-wage "burger flipping" jobs during their recoveries.
The difference between now and then is the ENTITLEMENT MENTALITY so many people have. You are NOT entitled to a great job, fast car, big house etc. If you make minimum wage in America for more than two years, it is YOUR DAMN FAULT. Earn a raise, earn a promotion, or get a better job you lazy good for nothing pieces of subhuman filth.
There was an interview a few months back with a guy who works at subway and says he has been making minimum wage for five years. Five years, and hasn't gone on to something else. FIVE. F ## ** ing. Years.
That guy doesn't deserve a government mandated raise, he deserved a song dedicated to in his honor:
It's appropriate for the minimum wage here to be higher in order for the people working fast food, restaurants, hotels and retail to be able to afford to live here, so there are services for those high paid tech people. Despite being heavily liberal, the state government likes to keep large employers here.
I agree but not $15/hour, which is like $6/hour higher than it is currently. Talk about one heck of a raise.
I've been a bit dissatisfied with Seattle politics lately because in the past, I always found it to be very pro-business despite being liberal. In short, it was pretty libertarian. However, in the past few years, I'm seeing more and more illogical hard-leftist rhetoric and policies from Seattle's politicians. Kshama Sawant comes to mind.
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You got all them grads pegged. Have a gold star.
