I405 has probably the worst major city Bypass loop in America! Agree? (Seattle: crime, subsidized)

[tommy64]

The 405 just seems bad because it's hilly.

[tommy64]

Originally Posted by beenhereandthere

Has anyone from say, South of Kent or as far East as Covington, tried Highway 18 to I90 and then West and if so, is that even a little faster than Highway 167 to I405?

GOD no.

[beenhereandthere]

Originally Posted by tommy64

GOD no.

405 is so bad at times, that I've wondered that maybe during those times, if that would be faster.

[Xanathos]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

Carpools and motorcycles can use either toll lane for free, but will need a Good to Go pass. Carpools will have to have three passengers, because the existing two-passengers carpool lanes are not meeting federal standards for average vehicle speed (they're clogged).

Yeah, if you're a two-person carpool, you're on the short end of the stick. Either pay the toll, move to the slow lane, or buy a backseat "Freeway Buddy(tm)".

If you're a higher-capacity vehicle (3-person carpool, vanpool, or bus), you're going to get to where you want to go quicker and with more reliable trip times.

The failure to meet the minimum speed requirements isn't because the lanes are clogged - it's because Seattle has the worst drivers of any metro area in the nation, and there's inevitably some Prius or Subaru who decides to come to a complete stop 100 yards before an exit so they can try to get over 3 lanes of traffic rather than miss their exit, or some parade leader who sees congestion on the non-HOV lanes and decides to slow down to 25 miles an hour even though there's nobody in front of them for days, all because they're concerned about someone merging into the lane.

The lane expansion was needed - for single occupant vehicles. What was needed to fix the carpool lanes was actual enforcement of proper driving techniques and not obstructing traffic.

Oh, and as an added bonus for this 155 million dollars those of us who actually pay into the system contributed for these roads, on top of being told we have to pay to use it, we can rest easy in the knowledge that 75 cents of every dollar raised will go to a private company in Texas who did nothing more than put up the tolling devices. It's yet another example of extreme progressives trying to legislate and condition behaviour.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by Xanathos

The failure to meet the minimum speed requirements isn't because the lanes are clogged - it's because Seattle has the worst drivers of any metro area in the nation, and there's inevitably some Prius or Subaru who decides to come to a complete stop 100 yards before an exit so they can try to get over 3 lanes of traffic rather than miss their exit, or some parade leader who sees congestion on the non-HOV lanes and decides to slow down to 25 miles an hour even though there's nobody in front of them for days, all because they're concerned about someone merging into the lane.

The lane expansion was needed - for single occupant vehicles. What was needed to fix the carpool lanes was actual enforcement of proper driving techniques and not obstructing traffic.

Oh, and as an added bonus for this 155 million dollars those of us who actually pay into the system contributed for these roads, on top of being told we have to pay to use it, we can rest easy in the knowledge that 75 cents of every dollar raised will go to a private company in Texas who did nothing more than put up the tolling devices. It's yet another example of extreme progressives trying to legislate and condition behaviour.

You're blaming people for normal human behavior, which is to put their needs above others. Yes, some people will stick in the "fast" lane as long as possible, before trying to merge. Others will try to block them from merging in front of them.

How is concern over someone merging into the lane, especially if the view of turn signals is blocked by following cars, not legitimate? Driving 60 or 70 in that circumstance would be reckless, it seems to me. The Express Toll Lanes will address that, in that you can enter them only in designated zones.

As to "enforcement of driving techniques and not obstructing traffic", are you willing to pay more taxes to pay for it? Apparently not.

75 cents of what dollar? Provide a link. If you're throwing start-up costs in with operating costs, your claim is specious.

As to "extreme progressives", who are you talking about? Revenues from the gas tax have been shrinking, as more people are using more fuel-efficient, hybrid, and electric vehicles, or switching from SOVs to MOVs. Liberals would have supported a higher gas tax increase with a faster phase-in than what we got, which could have allowed more to be done to ease congestion - it is conservatives in eastern Washington who wouldn't.

Note: The 2007 "Roads and Transit" measure would have provided $14 billion over 20 years for highways, bridges, and roads, including 186 miles of new road lanes, in King, Pierce, and Snohomish Counties. The failure of that measure, largely due to conservatives rejecting new taxes, is what has largely led to where we are now. Sound Transit went back to the ballot and passed a slimmed-down "Transit" portion (ST2), but the "Roads" portion never did go back on the ballot. Why? Because, by itself, it would have gone down in flames.

[tommy64]

Originally Posted by beenhereandthere

405 is so bad at times, that I've wondered that maybe during those times, if that would be faster.

Military Rd would be better.

[Nodpete]

I've never driven the 405, but the by-passes around Atlanta scare the hell out of me.

[Jhenma]

Originally Posted by beenhereandthere

It was made in the mid sixties, when the Seattle area had only 1.5 million people , as big as Buffalo today. Now it has just under 4 million and except for straightening out the S curves, nothing has been seriously done to improve it. There are carpool lanes coming soon, but you have to pay up to 10 dollars to use them.
I can think that maybe some of the real old ones back East like I278 back in NYC, but they have been around for over 100 years and it's harder to widen in a big city with mass concrete than it is around where 405is.
In fact, Seattle is one of the few cities where it's bypass loop is actually WORSE than it's mainline

They're not carpool lanes, they're express toll lanes - you can ride in them if you're not carpooling but you have to pay. Also, it will very rarely reach $10.

[Inkpoe]

Originally Posted by beenhereandthere

405 is so bad at times, that I've wondered that maybe during those times, if that would be faster.

Nooo, you're going out of your waaay that it would negate any time saved. The i90/hwy18 junction is a bottleneck, then you gotta deal with i90 trafic eventually. Or if you decide to cut through Mirrormont/Hobart/Issaquah, that way gets very backed up as well. There's no reasonable alternative, unless you're willing to slog through Lk. WA blvd, Newcastle/Coal Creek, etc. Not faster, but it'll be moving somewhat.

[pnwguy2]

Let's face it, 405 on the eastside of Seattle is a zoo, and will likely be for decades to come. Congestion brings out the worst in drivers, and we have seen it here. The expansion of toll lanes is cool, but it doesn't really do much for the general traffic. It is simply a way for those who want to spend extra money to skirt around traffic. So be it. OK, spend five or ten bucks and get to your destination 5 minutes earlier. Really?