Recomendations on metal/fabric garage shelter? (houses, water, pole barn, tractor)

[snad5393]

Does anyone have experience with the metal pole and heavy canvas garages and shelters that seem to be becoming popular? Many are marketed by the company "shelter logic" as well as a number of others. They can be quite large such as 20x20 or larger.

How do they hold up to wind, rain, snow load and UV?

Have you heard about restrictions from building codes, or is it not a permanent structure?

Any feelings about any particular companies?

I am in Long Island NY, so some wind and at least the potential for heavy snow exist.

Steve

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Well, I've been living in a canvas wall tent for the last 15 months, in Alaska, so I can say that fabric structures can hold up pretty well to weather and heavy snow loads especially with a good rain fly and a metal infrastructure. Our aluminum shed has also stood up quite well, although we did buy the reinforcing kit for the roof to handle the snow loads.

I can't give you any specific brand recommendations, but you should make sure that whatever material they're using and the support infrastructure can handle your environmental conditions and that they are treated against fire, mildew, rust, etc. Some of the polymer fabrics are awesome, very light for their durability and water-proofing, but don't hold up well to extended UV or extreme cold. Some of the alloy metal buildings are also great, much lighter than galvanized, but can have some issues with pitting and corrosion with acid rain etc. And in both structures, the support structure is critical... if it isn't solidly connected and anchored, and you can't hang two or three people off a "rafter" for a few minutes it's probably not going to hold up for an extended period out in the elements.

Most fabric structures are considered temporary buildings in most municipalities. Some metal ones are, but most of the larger/heavier ones are considered permanent for zoning purposes. If they're on a permanent slab foundation, or you have electricity or water run to them, you should definitely check with the zoning board to determine whether you need any building permits. Also be aware than many municipalities and HOAs specifically restrict the size and type of temporary structures you can have on your property... one of my neighbors back in Seattle was forced to remove a large metal quonset-style garage/shed from hsi property because it was against the zoning regulations.

[Mac_Muz]

It depends on what you buy and the quality. I bought this for a shelter spray booth, and on the 3rd storm with heavy snow (NH wet early season in Oct snow) with a little wind this is what i got.

That day I had planned to take it down, I still took it down, but never could put it up again.
This is the 200 dollar type, el cheapo.

[MissingAll4Seasons]

too true Mac_Muz... buy cheap and you get cheap Our tent certainly wasn't the cheapest on the market, as 12 oz double-treated duck canvas is not a cheap material and is very heavy to ship and work with. Our shed was on the cheaper side, but the roof reinforcing kit added to the cost significantly. Unfortunately, a lot of the synthetics aren't cheap, but they can still be cheaply made or just not be right for the weather conditions... so personal inspections and honest references or test data is necessary. And light/flimsy poles and rafters should always make you think twice, the support structure is critical in any of these "light" buildings if you need them to hold up against wind or snow.

[snad5393]

Thanks for the advice all. There are some high quality structures out there- and you can get double frame options and heavy canvas that is uv treated on both sides. I have to see if I can do this with no permits- If i can it will be well worth it. If I need a building permit I may as well go with a steel building or a stick built shed.
Any hey- missingall4seasons- for a guy who lives in a tent, you sure have great internet access. Im definitely jealous and would love to know more about your adventure.

[Mac_Muz]

missing is female..... I would be upset if she had sugar maples to tap, I am upset AK has none to tap or I would be living there.

A good canvass is a lot better than any good plastic tarps. Canvass with take more UV rays than anything else i know of. Getting it supported correctly makes a big difference.

Probably enough heat to make it melt and shed snow matters in AK.

I am not fond of relitively flat roofs here in NH. No matter what it is made of. Here you must have a 12/12 pitch or 45 degree slope. With out that you must have more framing to carry a snow load, and then you must shovel. So I would go with a steel roof here any day at 12/12 pitch.

The 3 years i did straight in a tee pee the tee pee was better than a 12/12 pitch so no snow collected on it.

One strom came along where i made a tee pee cover for the tee pee cover, and that was some agii plastic. I called it Killer Whale hide, but I made that name up for lack of knowing what else to call it.

One side was snow white, the other was jet black and both sides were glossy. It was a rip stop plastic, and it lasted less than 1 full year.

A friend gave me this as new and it was all folded up nice. Another friend warned me of the storm a few hours away. So I went to work, which is funny looking back.

I tried to open this material on a one lane dirt road in the boonies and couldn't. The road wasn't large enough. At that point i tried to stuff it in a enclosed full size pick up bed and kept stuffing it in there, and did untill on the last lunge it filled with air and blew me and a good part of itself back out where with no cerimony I was dumped on the ground.

I did get it to a closed summer camp parking lot and cut to the shape i needed and just in time for that storm. That storm sounded like Banshee's going over the mountains, and the next day I found it had blown down trees and took rooves off barns all around us.

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Yup, I'm a gal who's lived through one Alaska winter in a 16x20 wall tent... and possibly looking at a second winter if we don't hurry yp and finish this cabin!! We have a small 24v battery bank w/inverter which we use to power a couple lights, our satellite internet dish, modem and wi-fi network. The dish is currently mounted on the tent platform and it's our only method of outside communication since there is no land or cell phones out here... sat internet is also a LOT cheaper than sat phones. We do have a CB radio, but that takes a lot more juice so it's really a last ditch emergency backup to get local help quick. You can check out more on our blog.

But I do definitely agree with Mac -- heavy canvas duck will and has outlasted any of our poly tarps, including the "etra heavy duty" silver one. The only tarp type synthetic that has stood up worth a darn is the cordura rip-stop heavy duty woven nylon... the stuff they make duffel bags and hiking packs from... but only if it's the UV stable kind. The sun does not play well with plastics. Of course rain doesn't play well with canvas unless you keep it waterproofed and treated against mildew. Maintenance just becomes even more important with any light structure.

Check your zoning, but you may be able to build a garage/shed using post frame construction and then roof and side it with metal for the same or less cost than one of the purchased shelters. Post framing/pole barn building is pretty easy and makes a quick sturdy shelter that doesn't use a lot of materials and offers a lot of open clear span with the right header and rafter design. Materials for our 16x24 cabin with gambrel (barn style) roof, which is about the same size as a 2 car garage with a loft, cost less than $15K -- fully finished, with R-50 insulation, and arctic doors and windows. But the lumber would be only about $3k, and the metal roofing and siding around $2k, for the same size building that didn't need to be super-insulated or have a fancy permafrost foundation. The entire floor is open, thanks to 2x12 joists 16" on center, which can safely span 16 feet without interior posts, it would be very easy to leave an entire end wall open or put in an oversized sliding barn door to make it a garage, shop or RV/tractor storage.

[Mac_Muz]

Pretty cool blog their lady. OT: mitts assuming you wear out heavy knee high wool socks, try some very thin liner gloves, and cheap to the elbow shells.

The socks are opened at the heels, which i wear out, so no work is needed. I do blanket stitch them anyway. With a thumb sticking thru the hole curl up yer fingers tight and begin to open them inside the wool sock. Cut the wool right there so all 4 fingers can get out. Blanket stitch that.

Getting dressed. Get yer longies on, get on a real shirt. Put on yer liner gloves really thin ones, pull on the socks, put on a jack shirt, assuming you wear those over the socks. Put on yer parka, pull on the shells.

Work, if your thumb gets cold pull it inside with yer fingers. If you need to chill run your fingers outside the wool.

I came up with this cheap design to deal with a 35 mm camera in 1976 and it works great. I can load film, pick up a dime, and do zippers with out ever baring my hands to -40 below 0. Holding a steel ice axe for climbing is a no brainer.

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Thanks for the tip -- DH definitely murders his socks faster than I do and I can only darn them up so many times He tends to wear out the heal and right at the ball of the foot, so that should make a perfect mitt/cuff length for me since I've always got cold hands. I have nice LavaWool liners that should work wonderfully with these if need to pull off the big gumby gloves to do detail work without freezing my fingers.

Back to shelters - LOL. Greenhouse frames tend to be more sturdy than the cheaper portable shelter frames for about the same or less cost, so if the cover material is decent but the frame is dodgy you could always get the fabric without the frame (if they sell it that way) and get a greenhouse frame instead (if it's the same size). As far as I know, greenhouses don't need any permits in any of the states I've lived unless they are on a permanent foundation, and have electric and water permanently run to them... but a really big one might.

[Mac_Muz]

A point for me is the socks go on before a jack shirt, and right to my elbows. With the openings the way I make them if I am in a place I want bare hands, I can pull off the shells, peel the wool back right over my hands and pull off the glove liners, leaving the mitts on the whole time.

I have fallen a few times ice climbing and had ice and snow end up inside my sleeves to my shoulders and this more or less prevents that, even if the shells are torn off.

I can regulate my body temp too and still be covered. Cooling my hands still inside the shells, but in part out of the wool at -40 will cool one off some.

Getting wet here in -40 is just as dangerous as getting wet in Ak.

I remove the zipper gussets in my wind pants for the same reason. With boots and gaiters on I unzip the zipper to be just inside the gaitor tops, so I can un-zip the wind pants more, and allow cold air in thru a small opening at the zipper top.

The air at 60+ MPH comes right in, goes up, and then down the other side and out.... Venting off too hot and any sweat is a must do here in cold like that before you get wet.

A cheap handy frame for a green house can be bent up of electrical conduit, with a factory bender, and a marker. The plastic we have on ours is a semi clear rip stop. It sees no winter though, and is wearing at summer 4 right now. UV gets at it.





This detail shows the gray plastic clips made of 1 inch pvc conduit. You can cut out apx 1/4 of the conduit to make clips.