Big 3 Bailout (health insurance, buy, go bankrupt)

[tjmons]

It's easy for everyone to have an opinion, Moderator cut: language removed everybody has one. So here is mine.

I've read several posts were people are bashing the big 3 and calling the vehicles they produce pieces of junk. Well that type of thinking has not helped the industry over the years. I own 7 vehicles,all of them are big 3 vehicles and I can honestly say that they have all been reliable and dependable for me. I have never had any of them in the shop except 1 of them for a A/C leak test.

On the other hand, the honda I bought for my daughter to drive was the worst oil burnning car I have ever owned in the 25 years of owning autos, now she is driving a neon.

Is it the tax payers reponsibility to bail out the big 3? No ,I don't believe it is,but on the other hand I have not heard anything from the unions and the sacrifices they are willing to make to keep the industry alive. You can say what you want to,but the unions have played a big part in this crisis. Why should a person who is retired from 1 of the big 3 be making more money than I am when I am working 40 plus hours a week. The employees have been overcompensated for years, the vehicles over priced and now it may be to late to re structure the industry. I personally would rather be making 18 dollars and hour then be unemployed.

I was born and raised in Michigan,for 35 years. I moved my family south to Georgia about 8 years ago. The non union automotive plants in the area certainly are not hurting nearly as much as the big 3.

WHAT AMAZES ME the MOST is how can all of the big 3 union plants be facing an industrial meltdown when not 30 miles from my home Kia is building a brand new automotive manufacturing facility. Rumor has it they are not interested in hiring any people who have worked for a union automotive plant in the the past.

I am sorry the big 3 are struggling like they are, but until they step up to the plate and annouce to the public how they are going to cut costs,cut wages and restructure the whole industry,just handing them money is not going to save them.

Hold on,for this is going to be a very long and very bumpy road.

[Jammie]

Hi TJ and welcome. I couldn't agree with you more. The unions may have been impressive at one time, but the end results isn't good at all.

Homesteader, I know the feeling. LOL I believe the magical number is 20. You need to rep 20 people before you can re-rep the first person. Don't know if I explained that correctly either.

[SDHomesteader]

Well that sucks, there aren't 20 comments on this board I wanna rep LOLOL j/k,

Guess I better go back and reread some stuff and do some rep LOL.

Theres one thing that Kia is doing that the Big 3 aren't. MAKING AFFORDABLE CARS. The only thing the big 3 has concentrated on is the oversized gas guzzling behemoth SUV's and TRUCKS. The Keeping up with the jones's Crap falls in here, Once gas hit 3 bucks a gallon it cost 2 legs, an arm and 3 fingers off the other arm to fill them up, People realized, WTH am I doing with this monstrosity and got rid of them. Well most of the halfway intelligent people did anyway lol.

YOur Right though, these guys are asking for a handout without even doing anything to their industry to change anything. They want the handout but don't want to make any sacrifices on their part. SCREW THAT. Give them the money and in 6 months they will want another hand out cuz that money is all gone and dried up from paying CEO their wages. Cuz after all, THE CEO COMES FIRST RIGHT. Damnit this makes me soo damn mad that these failing businesses can pull this crap and then the people that do need the help get kicked in the face.

I also find it pretty amazing that ALL 3 of the BIG 3 are facing this issue all at once. Isn't that just a bit surprising to anyone????????

[cbest23]

I'm going to have to say on the subject that my wife and I have two cars, both being Hondas. I've always been a big researcher when it comes to auto, electronic, etc., before making a purchase. I constantly do research on various products and have found, at least for me, that these vehicles have been made better, safer, and at least for us, more enjoyable to ride in. Before people bash myself or anyone else for buying "foreign", I say that it's our money and I spend it on what I feel the safest and most comfortable for my family to ride in. I know that there's usually a stigma on American cars for not being reliable, affordable, or "safe" which in many cases may or may not be true, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. In my case, most friends that have purchased American made, have had numerous problems with their vehicles and endless repair costs. I've had repairs for my Hondas, but usually nothing more than normal wear and tear. As for the original subject about the bailout, I don't see how every company can keep getting bailed out of their problems that they in fact caused, when we'll be the ones paying for it in the end through taxes. I feel that if anyone should bail the "big 3" out, it should be the oil companies, who the "big 3" have kept in business for so long be making these vehicles that have low mileage, guzzles gas, and have been partially responsible for global warming ( if you believe in that ). I read a while back that exxon for instance had a second quarter profit of close to $12 billion dollars. Now, I'll admit that I don't know what every one of these companies are pulling in, but they aren't hurting as much as others, so let them put money back into the auto industry who's been keeping them afloat for years. By the way, Shell had a $11 billion 2nd quarter as well.

[Jammie]

Well, I'm one for buying American made~or let me rephrase that~I USED to feel it was very important.

Both DH and I have American made autos~mine is a Pontiac and his is a Ford. He was always impressed with Fords, but I finally said I will never own one again. We put thousands into engines and trannies and I don't think any of them had hit 100,000 miles before those two things were shot. There were always oil leaks and I've noticed that when someone drives a Ford from a parking spot.

THEN we got the shaft on our most recent Ford purchase. Seems they don't like to back their transmissions and will do anything to convince you there's nothing wrong. A couple months after it went off factory warranty,~yup~you guessed it~a brand new tranny had to be put in it on our dime. HMMM, I think there was about 30,000 miles on it.

They did try to adjust the gas mileage up since it was only getting 8 mpg and after months of taking it back to the shop, they realized that something was flawed in the factory. Yea, this is several hundred dollars of gas later.

Now the older ones like the little Ford Falcons~they were much better. But we also had a small Ford and got a whole 12 mpg on the highway. The Ford DH has right now doesn't do much better even after all the hassles and running back and forth and fighting with the company.

SO far, we've been fortunate with our Pontiac. But ya think American made will be the first thing we look at the next time we need a vehicle??? I don't think so. There are a lot of people who have been buying Toyota Corollas and seem to get such good gas mileage and rave about their cars. Between their happiness with them and the Big Three now being greedy little guys, I doubt we'll buy American made autos anymore.

And that's another thing~does anyone know just how "American made" those vehicles are? I know that parts of them are made overseas. Does anyone know any percentages? Wouldn't it be a hoot if companies like Toyota actually have Americans making more of that car then the so called "American made" companies do? They, among others, have several factories sprinkled around the U.S. so I'd kinda call that "American made".

Oh, and as a side note about the rep thing~You can give it to anyone on any forum or sub-forum and it counts toward your 20. For instance, you can go to another state, politics, anywhere and it counts.

[DannyBanany]

Like I said, my Honda Accord was made in Maryland and 85% of its parts are American made. It's a 2004 and it has 130,000 miles on it already (lots of trips to Omaha, Denver, Twin Cities, etc.). I've never had a single problem with it other than the routine oil change and one time a tail light burned out. I'll never buy a Big 3 automobile; we had them a few times when I was growing up and I couldn't even tell you how much money was thrown into them for repairs.

[SDHomesteader]

Thanks jammie, I may head over the nebraska or iowa boards to then since I am from Omaha/Council Bluffs and born in Des Moines areas lol.

Well to my knowledge alot of the Chrysler Cars used Mistubisishi engines in them. Well at least my 95 Neon had one in it. Supposedly it saves money by using someone elses engines in new models or what have you so they don't need to tool new engine blocks. Now I've been out of the mechanical field since 98 so I don't know too much about them anymore. As far as I'm concerned, once they got rid of the 225 slant six engine they blew it for me. That engine was damn near indestructable and lasted forever. I had a 71 dodge dart with one in it that lasted well over 600,000 miles on it before I got rid of it. Only thing i did to it was change fluids, an alternator, power steering pump (my fault) and the brakes. That was my first car and I paid 250 bucks for it from an old guy down the street (no offense to the old folk on here). Even threw in a Motor's repair manual for it lol.
A ford van I owned in the 90's (i think it was an 85 or 86) had alot of japanese (or foreign parts in it), the brakes, powersteering pump, Alternator, air conditioning compressor.

I too am curious as to how much of each of these big 3 vehicles is still american made. I bet its not even near half of the parts. Alot of "Mopar" brand parts I have gotten in the past say made in mexico on them.

I agree with Cbest, let the oil companies foot some of the bill LOL. Never happen but damnit its a good idea.

Again, does anyone know why all Big 3 Companies are failing at the same time???
Coincidence, Plannning??????????????

[DannyBanany]

Originally Posted by SDHomesteader

Again, does anyone know why all Big 3 Companies are failing at the same time???
Coincidence, Plannning??????????????

They're all failing because even after countless loans, they have failed to modify factories and their CEOs are making just as much as ever. When you own a business and it begins to fail who usually takes the first cut? YOU DO! These CEOs are making millions while their assembly line workers are getting laid off left and right and their stocks fall deeper and deeper. Why can't these oil companies bail them out? Oil companies have made staggering profits for the past three years because they've price-gauged us into a recession. Without the Big 3 these oil companies would have not profits.

I say let 'em go bankrupt.

[cbest23]

Not to get off of the subject, but I saw a report on CNN that stated that Insurance "giant" AIG, who had just gotten $152 billion of the bailout money, reportedly gave $500 million in bonuses to employees i.e. Executives.. What a disgrace, this is exactly what one of the main problems is... How can executives of big companies continue to write themselves big checks, while everyone else suffers? These people got themselves into this mess, let them get themselves out! Not to sound cruel, but how many of these people lent a hand to you or I when we needed it? Now, we have to bail companies out that squandered and abused the system at our expense.. Unfortunately, people will be put out of work if these problems continue, but can we continue to keep bailing these companies out?

[Jammie]

IMHO they're failing cause the govt. has their billfold open. Remember when you were a child and your Dad was handing out money to your siblings? All of a sudden there were several things that you absolutely needed.

That's just awful about AIG doing that. I dunno~I think we've opened a can of worms with those bailouts.