Everyone in missouri...pleas read this...very important. (taxes, costs)

[latetotheparty]

Originally Posted by Arrby

I will agree with one observation - this IS important!

This law has nothing to do with "puppy mills". Mo. has laws that have been used time and again to shut down and even prosecute abusive breeders. Most of the problems tend to arise from unlicensed breeders. Let me repeat that - the problems tend to be with people who are not known to the state of Missouri. What they do is already illegal. Assigning new limits to LICENSED breeders is not going to change the behavior of UNLICENSED breeders. If the problem is poor enforcement, the answer is not new laws.

No, this law is about establishing the precedent of control of the use, care, and breeding of all animals. That includes YOUR dog, YOUR cat. Your parakeet. Not to mention cows, sheep, hogs, chickens, every farm animal - and of course, those of us whose very lives depend upon a sustainable food source. It is the camel's nose under the tent to gain power over virtually every farmer and every pet owner in the state.

The Humane Society of the US, whose paid shills lied to and harassed voters at public libraries, malls, and public venues across the state, has a budget in excess of one hundred millions of dollars per yer, but spends almost exactly nothing on animals: less than a fraction of 1% of their budget. They are not associated with the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, or any shelter organization. They are purely a political organization. They care little for animals, as animals, but care a great deal about political power.

Note that this law is sought to be acted upon directly by the voters - not our representatives, not our senators. Not even our governor. Will there be any scrutiny for unintended consequences? Will there be any analysis of who will be affected and how? No. Will there be an unreasoned emotional appeal to "do something"? Absolutely. This is not the way sensible people make laws, but it is the way unscrupulous, power hungry groups get rich.

By the way, it was 94 deg. here locally today. This new law will require controlled environments for the dogs - 45 to 85 deg. You all did provide air conditioning for your dogs and cats today, didn't you?

the laws on Missouri's books are virtually toothless and punishment (if it EVER happens) amounts to little more than a slap on the wrist and an admonishment to don't be doin' THAT again..... and some of the worst offenders are "licensed" .......

ANY law that requires minimal standards of food, water, room, vet care, exercise, rest between breeding cycles, etc. is an improvement, in my book. Yeah, the Dept. of Agriculture is woefully understaffed and can't keep up with what they have to do now, but if this law is passed, then they will have a little bit more of a weapon in their arsenal.....

you have a point about the Humane Society of United States .... to a point.... i am hearing a repetition of the ridiculous claims about them wanting to eliminate pet ownership and livestock farming completely.... show me a credible source where you got THAT information from and i might take it a little more seriously..... i was never harrassed by "paid shills" ..... i deliberately went to a location to sign the petition to get this on the ballot..... i have seen with my own eyes puppy mill survivors, and they resemble NOT AT ALL those cute little puppies you see in the pet stores or online..... the breeders are practically unrecognizable as dogs..... physically and mentally.....

imo, the ONLY people who are against this proposed law are those that would have to bring their standards up to comply with it..... if you are already providing adequate nutrition, shelter, exercise, vet care and rest for your breeding stock, then you have nothing to object to and in fact, should WELCOME this law as moving Missouri away from the title of puppy mill capital of the country..... a title that hurts the reputation of ALL breeders.......

eta ... you bet my dogs and cats are in the air conditioning..... with plenty of food and water and a back yard to go out into if they so desire.... they are the lucky ones.......far too many are not......

[brushrunner]

Just more regulating people out of business by people that have no idea how hard it is making a living off this pile of rocks.

brushrunner

[GeekOfTheOzarks]

Originally Posted by Arrby

By the way, it was 94 deg. here locally today. This new law will require controlled environments for the dogs - 45 to 85 deg. You all did provide air conditioning for your dogs and cats today, didn't you?

I find this confusing ... based on this logic should we not be "required" to provide A/C for all animals (wild or domestic) in the summer?

That seems a bit silly - as a society we aren't even "required" to provide A/C for all humans.

Once the law is passed, where do we draw the line? (I'm talking about the animals since we've already established that, as a society, we don't care this much for our fellow humans).

And oh yeah ... that very important question, if we don't provide A/C for all the animals, who gets to decide which ones make the cut and which ones sit out in the heat?

Is it safe then to assume that zoos will be required to provide A/C for all their animals too? Gee, that could create a whole new industry segment ... elephant-sized A/C units for sale!

Where does it end?

Slippery slope - here we come...

[Silvermouse]

Originally Posted by GeekOfTheOzarks

I find this confusing ... based on this logic should we not be "required" to provide A/C for all animals (wild or domestic) in the summer?

That seems a bit silly - as a society we aren't even "required" to provide A/C for all humans.

Once the law is passed, where do we draw the line? (I'm talking about the animals since we've already established that, as a society, we don't care this much for our fellow humans).

And oh yeah ... that very important question, if we don't provide A/C for all the animals, who gets to decide which ones make the cut and which ones sit out in the heat?

Is it safe then to assume that zoos will be required to provide A/C for all their animals too? Gee, that could create a whole new industry segment ... elephant-sized A/C units for sale!

Where does it end?

Slippery slope - here we come...

Agreed. And I just hope my kids don't hear about this idea. They've been out in the hayfield stacking square bales for two weeks.

[cgsred]

I have always had those doggy flap doors at the rear of the house. For Jack Russells, about 10" x 12" at the bottom of the back door. Secure and it gives the critters a choice.
My last two Branson/Hollister homes had big back yards with shade trees and whenever I got home from where ever, they were mostly outside or in their Dogloo's if it was raining. With squirrels to chase, birds to bark at, every self respecting dog would be outside on the chase and protecting their property.
I have seen some dreadful conditions applied to pets and likewise some humans.
Its how we react thats importent in life. God Bless.

[fishinbud]

I will be voting 'no' as well. Regulation on business is strangling us all and I believe there will be increased costs to the local governments and the state (i.e., the citizens of the state). Just one more step in our loss of freedom.

Let the market decide. It will.

I'm a dog lover too but I refuse to vote on emotion.

[latetotheparty]

Originally Posted by brushrunner

Just more regulating people out of business by people that have no idea how hard it is making a living off this pile of rocks.

brushrunner

making a living off of animal abuse and cruelty is no way to make a living......

those of you that claim to be dog or animal lovers, i challenge you to do a google search of "puppy mills" and actually LOOK at the pictures and videos.... and then come back and tell me that you think this bill should not be passed......

huge huge difference between cattle or sheep or whatever in a pasture and dogs confined to wire cages not large enough to stand up or turn around in.... with the feces and urine of the dogs above falling through constantly.... no clean water or food .... no shelter from the elements..... at least those cattle and sheep in the pasture have the option of getting a drink of water or standing in the shade of a tree......

eta: IF you are a breeder that houses and feeds and otherwise cares for your breeders in a humane manner, than, really, what do you have to worry about with the passage of this bill??

[misplaced1]

Does anyone have any links to the bill in question? I'd like to read the wording. I've seen some good points brought up questioning who decides what animals will be kept in controlled conditions and how we can make temperature control demands for animals when we don't even have that for human beings. Very good points.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

It sounds like a good law to me. As latetotheparty said, it sounds like if you are providing for your breeding dogs, then you shouldn't worry.

Nonetheless, people should have the right to breed dogs, but the dogs need basic essentials. I agree that I don't like a lot of government intervention in our lives, but if the bill is reasonable, and it saves the lives of dogs, I take no issue with it.

That said, I have not actually read it.

The problem with breeding dogs is that there are honest caring breeders and then there are puppy mills. And most of the dogs for sale in pet stores that are purebred (we have a dog from a pet store, but she was an oops puppy, half min-in and half some unknown male) are from puppy mills. Bills like this try to cut down on puppy mills, which Missouri and Pennsylvania are the worst states for.

I would think honest breeders would like puppy mills to be as restricted as possible, because puppy mills are competition and they reflect poorly on honest breeders.

I would suppose it might hurt some breeders. I haven't actually read the bill, but sometimes in order to stop the worst offenders, the decent ones feel the pinch as well. That said, I don't know if they will be hurt or not. I don't know that much about the breeding industry. I would think the positives would very much outweigh the negatives.

We all face regulations in our jobs.

Part of the reason we have puppy mills is because the public demands these puppies. To be honest, if people were more accepting of mixed-breed dogs, and if they refused to pay hundreds and even thousands for dogs that they don't know the origin of, there probably wouldn't be as much demand for puppy mills.

[Cali BassMan]

THe Problem is when you get some nutcases like the PETA and them authoring the bills, then they sue because the state isn't enforcing the law as written on Cattle Ranchers, or Sheep or Horses.....Now we all know A/C for 1500 head herd of Angus is ridiculas, but thoses PETA types will sue just so they have a good amount of cash in thier war chest.....
Be very careful, they've done that type of stuff succsessfully in Cali for decades