St. Louis Public Schools (University City, Kirkwood: best neighborhood, loft, school districts)

[aragx6]

Scocar I'd say it depends on the number of children we're talking about (as a percentage of the overall whole), the school facilities and whether or not they were up to par, and the relationship with administration. Although bad teachers don't ruin schools I have absolutely no doubt regressive administrators can.

Essentially you'd have to convince me it wasn't a social experiment but rather something that would work. I'd also be more inclined to do this with a younger child (say grades 1-3) than even later elementary school years.

[STLviaMSP]

You start with, say 100 families. Get a commitment. Go from there. Publicize the hell out of it.

[flynavyj]

Originally Posted by scocar

I guess if you truly believe that the low test scores are a result of bad teachers, then that would make sense. I'm 100% convinced that's not the case.

This can’t be painted with a broad brush. Poor teachers aren’t always the problem, but they can be part of the problem. The same is true about the parents, and as a result the kids. I’m sure every parent out there knows there’s a tipping point where you are no longer your child’s biggest role model. So then you have to look at the other options that your kid is looking at, some kid with his pants around his ankles who doesn’t believe in studying or striving to achieve anything? We can say all day long that the parents are at fault, and they are, but there are more factors here than simply bad teacher that would keep me from sending my kids to some of the lesser performing public schools.

On the home school front, I had numerous friends from my youth who were homeschooled. The vast majority of them did just fine in public situations, and educational achievement. A homeschooled friend of mine ended up being my roommate for a couple years in college and he did just fine, both academically and socially. While there are some limitations in some social settings, often the structure of support between other homeschooled kids and their parents allows interaction with numerous other kids between summer camps, sporting events, and social activities. Also, many of the parents I knew who were home schooling their children were former teachers themselves. Often, raising their children ranked high enough on the list that they stayed home to do it…and with some of the more typical teacher salaries, and costs of day care would soften the financial blow from the loss of income.

[aragx6]

^Additionally, the homeschool crowd has, at least traditionally, been a fairly religious group so social interaction was pretty regular at church events as well.

I would never homeschool my kid for the academic reasons scocar mentioned -- essentially I'm not vain enough to think I have the knowledge to offer my kid a full education -- but I do think the social aspects are often overstated.

[stlcitygirl]

Just read this:
SLPS to Host Public Forum on Magnet & Choice School Application Process

ST. LOUIS, MO. February 7, 2012 – The St. Louis Public School District’s 2012-2013 Magnet and Choice School Guide and Application is now available for prospective and current students. To help families make the right educational choice for their child(ren), SLPS will be hosting a public forum on the Magnet and Choice School application process.

Date: Wednesday, February 15
Time: 6:30-7:30pm
Location: Gateway Math Science and Technology Elementary School, #4 Gateway Dr.

Details: Lou Kruger, Executive Director of Recruitment and Counseling, will be giving a presentation and fielding questions on the Magnet and Choice School Guide and Application Process. Specifically:

1) What is a magnet school and what is a choice school?
2) Who is eligible?
3) What is the application process?
4) What are the deadlines and why they are important?
5) What are the eligibility requirements and what do they mean?
6) What is the lottery and how does it work?

To view the 2012-2013 Magnet and Choice School Guide and Application, please click here. For additional information regarding the public advisory, please contact the Office of Public Information (314) 345-2367.

[scocar]

Originally Posted by stlcitygirl

Just read this:
SLPS to Host Public Forum on Magnet & Choice School Application Process

ST. LOUIS, MO. February 7, 2012 – The St. Louis Public School District’s 2012-2013 Magnet and Choice School Guide and Application is now available for prospective and current students. To help families make the right educational choice for their child(ren), SLPS will be hosting a public forum on the Magnet and Choice School application process.

Date: Wednesday, February 15
Time: 6:30-7:30pm
Location: Gateway Math Science and Technology Elementary School, #4 Gateway Dr.

Details: Lou Kruger, Executive Director of Recruitment and Counseling, will be giving a presentation and fielding questions on the Magnet and Choice School Guide and Application Process. Specifically:

1) What is a magnet school and what is a choice school?
2) Who is eligible?
3) What is the application process?
4) What are the deadlines and why they are important?
5) What are the eligibility requirements and what do they mean?
6) What is the lottery and how does it work?

To view the 2012-2013 Magnet and Choice School Guide and Application, please click here. For additional information regarding the public advisory, please contact the Office of Public Information (314) 345-2367.

The fact that SLPS can have wonderfully performing magnet and choice schools should go to show that it's not the administration and teachers that are the problem. It makes no sense that SPLS would have the ability to hire great teachers and administrators at their magnet schools, but somehow lose that ability in their neighborhood schools. This is strong evidence to support the notion that if good parents kept their kids in neighborhood schools those schools would automatically improve.

[STLviaMSP]

^ Scocar. +1

It's like people just can't see the obvious. If you put good families in those schools, they improve. About as simple as it gets.

[aragx6]

^The issue here is that you really, obviously, know very little about St. Louis. (And then wander in with your judgy pants on making grand proclamations about how we all don't care)

I don't think St. Louis has the gentrification necessary in the vast majority of neighborhoods to do that. Even St. Louis' best neighborhoods abut to other not so nice ones. Even St. Louis' nicest areas have a large diversity of incomes. The extreme western and southern edges might be the exceptions here.

I agree, and have said in this thread, that I absolutely believe having better families in these schools would pay dividends where it comes to test scores. It is simple, but that doesn't make it a solution.

What does that change for the poor kids who still have terrible home lives? So the schools simply have better test results as an aggregate, so what? It might help do-gooders sleep better at night, but that's not the crux of the issue, is it? Kids from poor homes need more and better opportunities -- simply they need more attention and more money. Your "fix" doesn't appear to accomplish that.

[scocar]

Originally Posted by aragx6

^The issue here is that you really, obviously, know very little about St. Louis. (And then wander in with your judgy pants on making grand proclamations about how we all don't care)

I don't think St. Louis has the gentrification necessary in the vast majority of neighborhoods to do that. Even St. Louis' best neighborhoods abut to other not so nice ones. Even St. Louis' nicest areas have a large diversity of incomes. The extreme western and southern edges might be the exceptions here.

I agree, and have said in this thread, that I absolutely believe having better families in these schools would pay dividends where it comes to test scores. It is simple, but that doesn't make it a solution.

What does that change for the poor kids who still have terrible home lives? So the schools simply have better test results as an aggregate, so what? It might help do-gooders sleep better at night, but that's not the crux of the issue, is it? Kids from poor homes need more and better opportunities -- simply they need more attention and more money. Your "fix" doesn't appear to accomplish that.

It might not fix it, but it does more to improve it than the current system. Having some of these poor kids with terrible home lives mixed in with kids from middle class kids with good home lives at an early age would create a much better learning environment than having ALL the poor kids from terrible homes lumped into the same school. All the school choice systems do is "wash their hands of the situation".

Your point about good neighborhoods that abut up to not so nice neighborhoods is no issue at all. I want kids from good neighborhoods to go to school with kids from not so good neighborhoods. You said earlier that you know many people who lives were significantly impacted by a great teacher. Well I guarantee in the aggregate kids are influenced more by their friends than their teachers. When so many of the kids come from the families that don't care then there ceases to be positive peer role models in the schools. Integrating them more would help this.

I really don't think knowing about St. Louis is the issue here. I have never said that the people here don't care. My views apply to any school system that has these choice mechanisms in place where the end results creates segregated schools.

I moved here in August without a Missouri teaching certificate. So I'm currently teaching an ACT prep class at a high school in north county. The city in which the high school resides has a population of around 10,000 and is 54% white, 44% black. The public high school that I teach at is 98% black. How is that even possible I wonder?

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by scocar

It might not fix it, but it does more to improve it than the current system. Having some of these poor kids with terrible home lives mixed in with kids from middle class kids with good home lives at an early age would create a much better learning environment than having ALL the poor kids from terrible homes lumped into the same school. All the school choice systems do is "wash their hands of the situation".

Your point about good neighborhoods that abut up to not so nice neighborhoods is no issue at all. I want kids from good neighborhoods to go to school with kids from not so good neighborhoods. You said earlier that you know many people who lives were significantly impacted by a great teacher. Well I guarantee in the aggregate kids are influenced more by their friends than their teachers. When so many of the kids come from the families that don't care then there ceases to be positive peer role models in the schools. Integrating them more would help this.

I really don't think knowing about St. Louis is the issue here. I have never said that the people here don't care. My views apply to any school system that has these choice mechanisms in place where the end results creates segregated schools.

I moved here in August without a Missouri teaching certificate. So I'm currently teaching an ACT prep class at a high school in north county. The city in which the high school resides has a population of around 10,000 and is 54% white, 44% black. The public high school that I teach at is 98% black. How is that even possible I wonder?

I know. The person I referenced did though.

And I do agree that having more middle class kids in classrooms with lower class ones would be good for them and I apologize if my last post made it seem otherwise. But the point is, it's incredibly easy to say "Oh well if there were good families, the schools would be better, duh." What is hard to understand however is that, in many many St. Louis Public School boundaries, even those near the very best neighborhoods, you've still probably got 50-75% of the kids eligible for free and reduced meals. There aren't necessarily enough middle class families to go around and make that difference. That's a very hard sell for a parent who values education.