What is really wrong with St. Louis? (Miller: coupon, loan)

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock

I don't know about all your numbers. But I do know it's not right to deduct somebody's pay 23%, just because they can and deduct it without regard of an employee's personal circumstances. I'm not talking about a teenager living at home with his parents and he's maybe making extra money to pay for the car insurance so his parents will let him drive the family car. Thats a different discussion. Im talking about the workers who are supporting their family with money from a minimum wage job. This job is their chief source of income. They've adjusted their lifestyle based on 10 dollars an hour. To cut the pay to $7.70 an hour is not morally the right thing to do. Oh, yeah, the employer can always cut their pay and/or cut their hours, but that will only make them eligible for even more food stamps and/or welfare assistance, and then you be pitching a fit about that.

The issue was took to the voters of St Louis and the voters voted in favor of 10$ an hour minimum wage. That's the bottom line. It's not right to over rule the voters.

If a business can't compete by paying 10$ an hour, then they will go out a business. But there will be another business come along and do just fine and post profits while paying 10$ an hour. Thats how the market works. Its called Capitalism.

Also, the other factor is that will also causes prices to go up by paying this $10 or $15 or whatever min wage. With prices going up the worker won't see any benefit from the pay raise.

Then when businesses move out of the city they will blame the business or call them racist or something.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

Also, the other factor is that will also causes prices to go up by paying this $10 or $15 or whatever min wage. With prices going up the worker won't see any benefit from the pay raise.

Then when businesses move out of the city they will blame the business or call them racist or something.

The only reason a good would increase in price by the same amount as the min wage increase, is if the good was produced with 100% min wage labor.

[Ivory Lee Spurlock]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

Also, the other factor is that will also causes prices to go up by paying this $10 or $15 or whatever min wage. With prices going up the worker won't see any benefit from the.

That's pretty much the way it is with just about any place you work. It's not only the minimum wage workers that cause prices to go up. Every occupation is guilty. Everybody in a large factory will get a raise pretty much around the same time, that means more money will be spent and every other worker in town will be needing a raise in order to keep up with the increasingly high cost of living.

When I was living in apartment, it seemed like whenever I would get a raise at work, it would be like clock work that the rent on my apartment would increase enough that it pretty much ate up my raise. All that changed when I purchased my own place and the mortgage payments stayed the same year after year. I'd still get raises at work, but no rent increase made it much easier to get by. Once everything got paid off, I started to live rent free, except for property taxes, which have more than doubled in the past 7 or 8 years or so.

When I was working and paying rent in the year 2000, it was as difficult to get by then as it was in 1982. For me it was.

So it's not only the minimum wage workers that cause prices to go up. I know that conservatives want people to believe that, but it's not the case. It's only an excuse to not increase the minimum wage.

[ryanfze55]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

Also, the other factor is that will also causes prices to go up by paying this $10 or $15 or whatever min wage. With prices going up the worker won't see any benefit from the pay raise.

Then when businesses move out of the city they will blame the business or call them racist or something.

Prices will only go as high as consumers are willing to pay. And trust me, businesses will charge at or near what customers are willing to pay no matter what the minimum wage is. McDonald's is not struggling, trust me. Corporate profits are at all time highs.

The minimum wage either needs to truly adjust for inflation and be a basic living wage, or it shouldn't exist at all. I hear people make the argument that minimum wage is for high school kids who just need some basic work experience. If that's true, why do we need a minimum wage at all? Let the kids work for $4 or $5 per hour if that's what they agree upon with the employer.

[1grin_g0]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

Also, the other factor is that will also causes prices to go up by paying this $10 or $15 or whatever min wage. With prices going up the worker won't see any benefit from the pay raise.

Then when businesses move out of the city they will blame the business or call them racist or something.

I agree. When labor costs rise it makes automation more attractive. The big losers with minimum wage hikes are seniors with fixed income.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock

That's pretty much the way it is with just about any place you work. It's not only the minimum wage workers that cause prices to go up. Every occupation is guilty. Everybody in a large factory will get a raise pretty much around the same time, that means more money will be spent and every other worker in town will be needing a raise in order to keep up with the increasingly high cost of living.

When I was living in apartment, it seemed like whenever I would get a raise at work, it would be like clock work that the rent on my apartment would increase enough that it pretty much ate up my raise. All that changed when I purchased my own place and the mortgage payments stayed the same year after year. I'd still get raises at work, but no rent increase made it much easier to get by. Once everything got paid off, I started to live rent free, except for property taxes, which have more than doubled in the past 7 or 8 years or so.

When I was working and paying rent in the year 2000, it was as difficult to get by then as it was in 1982. For me it was.

So it's not only the minimum wage workers that cause prices to go up. I know that conservatives want people to believe that, but it's not the case. It's only an excuse to not increase the minimum wage.

You don't want to live in Florida then.

Rent is crazy in many areas down here along with housing combined with the low wages down here.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

You don't want to live in Florida then.

Rent is crazy in many areas down here along with housing combined with the low wages down here.

Plus Florida is being swallowed by the ocean.

[Hazel W]

Back in the forties, when the minimum wage went from 30¢ an hour to 40¢ an hour - honest, but rent was also low and, yes, the price of bread went up a penny a loaf the same day our raise was announced - I was working for Brown Shoe Company. The executives started screaming that they could not pay that, that they would go bankrupt.

Today, now called Caleres, Brown Shoe Company is a huge international company and doing quite well, thank you very much.

There's message there, I think.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by Hazel W

Back in the forties, when the minimum wage went from 30¢ an hour to 40¢ an hour

For context, that's a raise from $4 to $5.25 in 2015 dollars. (Real minimum wage peaked in 1968 at $10.86 is 2015 dollars, or $1.60 in 1968 dollars).

[Hazel W]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

For context, that's a raise from $4 to $5.25 in 2015 dollars. (Real minimum wage peaked in 1968 at $10.86 is 2015 dollars, or $1.60 in 1968 dollars).

I am following you. Now can you compare that to prices? In other words, which has risen most percentage-wise? A starter? In the late thirties - or around that time - I remember milk being five cents a quart, bacon was 10 cents a pound and bread was three loaves for a dime. Granted, those were Depression years. So I am probably picking a bad example. It just happens to have stayed in my memory.

Of course we all agree - I think - that prices and wages follow each other as sure as sunshine follows rain. I am just curious as to which has gone up faster and I'm not so good at math. Maybe you can say? Thanks.