Mayor Slay wants the City of St. Louis to enter St. Louis County (University City: apartment, buy)

[STLCardsBlues1989]

The city separated from the county in the 1870s. That's a long time to hold a grudge against the city.

This isn't an official vote:
http://www.mayorslay.com/polls/20090423speech.asp

Right now, 87% approve rejoining the city to the county.

[ShadowCaver]

Its an interesting dilemma, one that I would guess will surprise many people and be resolved VERY soon, or just continue as is - until something of very seriousness made it amicable for both 'sides' to merge.

Some articles worth reading:
To Merge or Not to Merge - St Louis Magazine - January 2007 - St. Louis, Missouri

... “The split makes us what we are.” St. Louis has more governments than comparable metro areas do, but it also has a stronger sense of community. Consolidation of governments is a fad whose time is passing, Jones says, but “the Post-Dispatch won’t budge, no matter how often I talk to [editorial-page editor] Christine Bertelson. They continue to say that if only city and county would merge, then it would be, if not paradise, close to it. That’s utter nonsense. A merger would not eliminate poverty, improve schools or medical care, change the environment or affect population density.” ...

And from other perspectives/areas:
USATODAY.com - Merger will pump up city's stats

City-county merger: What would it solve?

And a past article that is still relevant in this discussion:
Odenwald’s holiday wish: A city-county union | Political Fix | STLtoday (http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/political-fix/political-fix/2006/12/odenwalds-holiday-wish-a-city-county-union/ - broken link)

But ya know, now that I think more about, I could swear that I recall reading something that this was already in process of happening???
//www.city-data.com/forum/st-lo...ty-county.html

[zach_33]

I have no idea what the ramifications are. It seems like a strange situation (the status quo) having city separate from county, but what does that entail if and when the two merge? Maybe 'ramifications' is the wrong question. What are the potential benefits and what are the potential consequences? I'm sure there have been scholars pick it apart over and over-- any good links?

[TXRyan23]

Nashville merged with Davidson County here in Tennessee back in the 60's, It's seemed to work fairly well here.

[loki03xlh]

I don't see it happening. Why would the county want to give up/share their power with the city? Why would all the "county" office holders in the city want to give up their jobs? OMG, Sheriff Murphy wouldn't have a job!!! not that he and his cronies do anything anyways. Would Clayton still be the county seat, or would it go back to STL city like it was before the divorce. Would county residents who are too terrified to go into the city for anything but Cards games want a merger?

I would love to see it happen, but I don't think it will.

[davey123]

Originally Posted by Inoxkeeper

There is one other thing no one has mentioned. Every municipality in the county has it's own little fiefdom with it's own power base. The people in the power positions will not want to give them up.

For decades the city wanted nothing to do with the country, it seems to me they missed their chance many years ago for a merger. I do not see Slay having any success in pulling this off although I do agree it would be the best thing for the area.

I moved from Stl (and from MO) 5 years ago. I always thought that it was strange that the city and county were separate. However, I think that Inox is spot on. This is an issue about power. Years ago, the city exercised its power by "divorcing" itself from the county. This "marriage" will not occur because I do not see the county ever giving up their power.

[moses ware]

I hope this will take place.Just call it st.louis, this will create a city of 1.3million people we can compete with other cities.

[mc378]

Please pardon the length of this post -- Merger is an issue that has always been of interest to me.

As a former Indiana resident (25 years) who grew up near Chicago and who has lived in St. Louis the past 15 years, this idea makes complete objective sense. St. Louis is the most geographically fractured city I've ever seen. There are 90+ municipalities in St. Louis Co. Many of them are, ostensibly, "cities." Some of the "City Limits" signs draw a smile every time I pass by -- e.g., Crystal Lake Park, population 457. There is a Pasadena Hills and a Pasadena Park and a Velda City and a Velda Village. How about Grantwood or Marlborough? 90 percent of St. Louisans would not be able to identify them on a map.

I'm sorry, but a "city" does not consist of 457 people. That would be called a "town" in Indiana, which has hundreds of them.

Indianapolis is a great model for what is called "unigov" and has a thirty-year head start on St. Louis. If it had not merged the city and Marion County, Indianapolis would be a small, non-descript city. Now, its a lean and efficient city--13th largest in the US and 3rd largest in the Midwest (beyond Chicago/Detroit).

St. Louis literally blows away Indianapolis in terms of history, higher education, medical care, culture, civic attractions, and restaurants. No comparison. However, because of the city-county disparity, St. Louis city lags behind in the majority of other categories.

St. Louis County is served by 25 fire districts, each with a different tax rate. That is in addition to probably a dozen municipal fire departments, plus STL City. Their quality is outstanding. The mutual aid is also top-notch. But how can there not be duplication?

Out-of-town residents who have visited me have commented with awe on Clayton's skyline, but they are confused as to why a "city" of 12,000 people has such a great skyline, especially when the St. Louis city skyline/downtown is far below expectation for a metro area our size.

I am aware of this history of the City/County fissure, but believe me, there were similar issues in Marion County. Very few (5?)independent municipalities now exist as pockets in Marion County. Over the years, most have fallen in line with Indianapolis and consider themselves to be "Indianapolis."

I understand that the grass is always greener, but....

Lots of fodder for discussion...

[davey123]

Originally Posted by mc378

I am aware of this history of the City/County fissure, but believe me, there were similar issues in Marion County. Very few (5?)independent municipalities now exist as pockets in Marion County. Over the years, most have fallen in line with Indianapolis and consider themselves to be "Indianapolis."..

MC, I appreciate your post. I definitely believe that it would be beneficial for a merger; however, I still just do not see it happening any time soon.

I am not aware of the Marion County/ Indianapolis merger. I wonder, however, if the dynamics of that fissure (then merger) are the same as those of Stl city/county. The way I see it, it's those strange dynamics of the Stl city/county fissure that will ultimately prevent a merger. One of those dynamics is that there are some very powerful municipalities (Clayton is not the only one of them). These municipalities have enjoyed so much power for so many years. As I said in a previous posting, I just do not see them giving up their power. Call me a pessismist

[mc378]

Originally Posted by davey123

I am not aware of the Marion County/ Indianapolis merger. I wonder, however, if the dynamics of that fissure (then merger) are the same as those of Stl city/county. The way I see it, it's those strange dynamics of the Stl city/county fissure that will ultimately prevent a merger. One of those dynamics is that there are some very powerful municipalities (Clayton is not the only one of them). These municipalities have enjoyed so much power for so many years. As I said in a previous posting, I just do not see them giving up their power. Call me a pessismist

davey,
The dynamics in Indianapolis predating the merger were not nearly as interesting as those in STL. As you accurately stated, the "strange dynamics" in STL created powerful headwinds that will likely impair productive merger talks for years to come. Like you, I just don't see it happening in the foreseeable future. Perhaps I will be wrong, which would be a good thing in this case. Thirty years from now? Fifty?