If You Thought Mass Transit Would Not Work..... (Tampa: hotel, transfer)

[BBI]

Originally Posted by mrviking

A lot of the wealthy get their income from capital gains which is taxed at a different rate because its investment income. So people like to use that interchangeable with an income tax to confuse people.

Capital gains is just a subset. It's another "loophole," and anyone who invests can participate in that loophole. If you have accumulated enough wealth, depending on if/how you've invested it, it is possible that the capital gains "loophole" with respect to a majority or all of your income, lowering your overall income tax rate. But prohibiting a wealthy person from using a "loophole" that's available to everyone doesn't seem "fair" to me at all. Meanwhile, the reason the capital gains tax is lower is because the government has decided it wants people to invest. But any scheme that taxes on the basis of income is going to lead to "unfair" and counterproductive results.

One exception on capital gains is people who invest for a living and structure their enterprises in order to treat what you and I would call wages/salary/commission as capital gains. That strikes me as gaming the system much more than participating in tax-incentivized behavior. But that is a separate (and small) issue that can be dealt with separately.

[randian]

Originally Posted by BBI

Capital gains is just a subset. It's another "loophole," and anyone who invests can participate in that loophole.

The lower long-term capital gains rate isn't a loophole. It's an imperfect adjustment to account for the fact that asset basis is not indexed to inflation. The right thing to do would be to inflation-index basis and tax gains at standard income-tax rates. I have no doubt somebody would then complain that inflation-indexing was a loophole.

[vaughanwilliams]

Originally Posted by mrviking

This cut and paste from Wikipedia

Some critics of the Pulitzer Prize have accused the organization of favoring those who support liberal causes or oppose conservative causes. Syndicated columnist L. Brent Bozell said that the Pulitzer Prize has a "liberal legacy", particularly in its prize for commentary.[SIZE=2][18][/SIZE] He pointed to a 31-year period in which only five conservatives won prizes for commentary. The claim is also supported by a statement from the 2010 Pulitzer Prize winner for commentary,Kathleen Parker: "It's only because I'm a conservative basher that I'm now recognized."[SIZE=2][19][/SIZE]

"Some critics (re sore losers) blah blah blah".

[BBI]

Originally Posted by randian

The lower long-term capital gains rate isn't a loophole. It's an imperfect adjustment to account for the fact that asset basis is not indexed to inflation. The right thing to do would be to inflation-index basis and tax gains at standard income-tax rates. I have no doubt somebody would then complain that inflation-indexing was a loophole.

I did not mean to use the term "loophole" in any technical sense, hence the quotation marks. Apologies for any confusion. No doubt any inflation-indexing would be cast as a despicable loophole by certain groups.

[mrviking]

Originally Posted by tinytrump

My position is more of that % of of folks not abiding by the laws that are in place already, and avoidance of paying thier dues. It is not prudent to go into detail on a public blog, but let's just say I have job security because of them.

so we should just keep sticking it to the rich because some don't pay all they should. You never did tell me whats fair. What percent of the tax burden should those top 5% pay??

[tinytrump]

I already stated they should pay whatever the law states- I am not a tax person, nor an economist- but what ever is due you--PAY it! That is what is FAIR. That to me is what makes an American, be true and honest in your dealings, business or otherwise as it affects us all. Say you make a million- good for you and say pay 20% tax, would you not want the guy who made his $5 million to pay as well? what are you not getting here?

[BucFan]

This thread really got off topic. Decent PRO-point of view article in support of mass transit in case you missed it.

Lagging on mass transit, Tampa Bay tries to get its act together again | Tampa Bay Times

[The Villages Guy]

Originally Posted by BBI

Capital gains is just a subset. It's another "loophole," and anyone who invests can participate in that loophole. If you have accumulated enough wealth, depending on if/how you've invested it, it is possible that the capital gains "loophole" with respect to a majority or all of your income, lowering your overall income tax rate. But prohibiting a wealthy person from using a "loophole" that's available to everyone doesn't seem "fair" to me at all. Meanwhile, the reason the capital gains tax is lower is because the government has decided it wants people to invest. But any scheme that taxes on the basis of income is going to lead to "unfair" and counterproductive results.

One exception on capital gains is people who invest for a living and structure their enterprises in order to treat what you and I would call wages/salary/commission as capital gains. That strikes me as gaming the system much more than participating in tax-incentivized behavior. But that is a separate (and small) issue that can be dealt with separately.

Keep in mind that the capital gains tax is still higher than the "effective" federal income tax rate people pay. So someone getting most of their income from investments pay around 15% net taxes, but even though income tax RATES may be 28% on the working class, the net taxes they should pay is closer to 10%. If they are paying more than the person paying capital gains taxes, then either they are doing their taxes wrong or need a different accountant.

Bottom line is that with rare rare exceptions, the rich pay more as a percentage and more in dollars than does anybody else. The class warfare needs to stop. And this comes from someone who is about to lose all his income he once made, which wasn't a lot to begin with. My income situation is not the fault of the rich guy who paid more anyhow.

[tinytrump]

Originally Posted by BucFan

This thread really got off topic. Decent PRO-point of view article in support of mass transit in case you missed it.

Lagging on mass transit, Tampa Bay tries to get its act together again | Tampa Bay Times

YES and the transit thing is tied to those what would use it,,, the working man/woman, student etc and and certain other folks do not feel compelled to pay a cent more for another man's ride. Is that not bottom line?

[Pragmaticus]

I am in Portland for a business and I love this place with its light rail and fantastic weather. 2hrs for $2.50, which basically connects you many places and you can carry bike on it as I see some do?--wow!

Just loving it

Talk about progressive area