Why should we NOT relocate to Tampa, Florida? (Orlando, Lakeland: private school, calculating)

[MortonR]

Originally Posted by sinatras

Where do you have the evidence of food prices being cheaper in Florida? My understanding from everyone who has done the research is that food prices are higher (than average) in Florida.

Just a quick Google search reveals that Florida has the 5th highest grocery prices in the USA.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-car...tml/?a=viewall

Here's a map that shows Florida's electric prices are not high but not low either.

https://www.globalenergyinstitute.or...ail-prices-map

What a lot of non-Floridians don't understand is that a lot of locally sourced food gets shipped out of state where it commands higher prices, too. That is, fish, citrus and other such commodities aren't as readily available here as one might think.

As for the energy stuff, don't get me started. Any time I hear someone use the term "Sunshine State" I get p*ssed, as we're the poster child for graft and influence when it comes to utilities and their efforts to prevent the use of renewable energy in the state. Want a solar system? Do't expect to be covering your costs so easily as a result, thanks to the utility company lobbyists and our legislators. Grrr.

RM

[bobandsherry]

Originally Posted by sinatras

Where do you have the evidence of food prices being cheaper in Florida? My understanding from everyone who has done the research is that food prices are higher (than average) in Florida.

Just a quick Google search reveals that Florida has the 5th highest grocery prices in the USA.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-car...tml/?a=viewall

Not sure how reliable a "cheatsheet" is as source, but a study (from 2017) from Missouri Department of Economic Development shows costs for all states by broad categories.

Overall Florida ranked as #26 (index of 99.3, or just slightly below US average), about in the middle of the pack. Specific to "grocery" Florida was ranked 19 out of 51 (index of 104.4, so 4.4% higher than the average), but well short of #5 that "cheatsheet" reported. Florida ranking in other categories:

- Lower than US average:

Housing: #23 (2.6% lower)
Health: #36 (3.7% lower)
Misc: #32 (2.3% lower)

- Higher than US average:

Utilities: #20 (2.9% higher than US average)
Transportation: #27 (1.2% higher than US average)

(Higher ranking = lower cost)

Cost of Living Data Series 2017 Annual Average

[sinatras]

Originally Posted by bobandsherry

Not sure how reliable a "cheatsheet" is as source, but a study (from 2017) from Missouri Department of Economic Development shows costs for all states by broad categories.

Overall Florida ranked as #26 (index of 99.3, or just slightly below US average), about in the middle of the pack. Specific to "grocery" Florida was ranked 19 out of 51 (index of 104.4, so 4.4% higher than the average), but well short of #5 that "cheatsheet" reported. Florida ranking in other categories:

- Lower than US average:

Housing: #23 (2.6% lower)
Health: #36 (3.7% lower)
Misc: #32 (2.3% lower)

- Higher than US average:

Utilities: #20 (2.9% higher than US average)
Transportation: #27 (1.2% higher than US average)

(Higher ranking = lower cost)

Cost of Living Data Series 2017 Annual Average

So, like I said, Florida groceries are higher than average.

[sinatras]

Originally Posted by FlaNativeGrl

Honestly when have you EVER Had to worry about pythons or gators in Tampa?? I've lived here 8 years and have not ONCE encountered a large reptile. As far as taxes, you realize they pay MUCH higher property taxes up north? Also, traffic is not that bad compared to other areas up north. Plus there are plenty of alternatives to public schooling here. Charter and private schools.

Oh look! Another one!

Alligator wanders into Sarasota homeowner's garage - Story | FOX 13 Tampa Bay

[MortonR]

Originally Posted by FlaNativeGrl

Honestly when have you EVER Had to worry about pythons or gators in Tampa?? I've lived here 8 years and have not ONCE encountered a large reptile. As far as taxes, you realize they pay MUCH higher property taxes up north? Also, traffic is not that bad compared to other areas up north. Plus there are plenty of alternatives to public schooling here. Charter and private schools.

Live anywhere near water? As a realtor you're all too familiar with the term "conservation lot"? (For non-Floridians this is realtor/developer speak for living next to the water, sort of like the term "natural wetlands" that is used in Northern climes to describe what most would call a "swamp".) If you do, you're going to experience some exposure to our gator and smaller snake friends.

We don't have pythons here to the best of my knowledge. It gets too cold at present. Pythons are primarily a South Florida issue.

I recently owned a half million dollar property (home) in Indiana which I paid less taxes on than I do for a home that's worth roughly half as much here, so that argument doesn't necessarily hold water. Tax relief legislation in Indiana and Wisconsin, states I previously lived in and still own property in, has cut property taxes significantly as well as capped increases that would otherwise run people out of their homes due to increased assessed values. That's a small sample, I'll admit, but to make the sweeping claims you're stating regarding higher taxes is misleading at best.

Alternative schooling? Most charters are by application only. The four that serve the area around my home (and I know there are more) are all full and have waiting lists, two of which are saying could be 2-3 years before getting in. Private schools? Around here that would be parochial schools for the most part, such as St. Stephens or Nativity. Tampa Catholic? Independent Day School (a place I used to do work for) will set you back between $10k-$20k/year per student. No discounts for multiple kids.

Now where is it cheaper to live?

I'm not picking nits here, I'm just trying to point out that Florida, despite the "sun and fun", isn't that much cheaper, if at all, than "up North". The costs are similar if you want the same level of education, amenities and infrastructure.

I realize the nature of your business is to sell people on the area, however, trying to pass it off as some panacea compared to places north of the Mason-Dixon Line is simply disingenuous.

RM

[bobandsherry]

Originally Posted by sinatras

So, like I said, Florida groceries are higher than average.

Well, the source you sited had Florida at #5 in the US, it provided no relative indexing or reference point, so what you posted was basically useless information. But yes, based on the study I found, grocery in Florida is higher that the US average by 4%. To that end, I was just posting the deet's from what may be a more reliable and reputable source.

But less let me point out that you've also made statements that it's expensive to live in Florida. Based on the study housing is less expensive that the US average, and total cost of living in Florida is just slightly south of the US average.

Since you want to stand up and thump your chest in a "victory" on grocery costs, let's revisit your comment concerning Virginia. You clearly conveyed how inexpensive Virginia is for housing compared to Florida, spewing forth meaningless information on assessed value comps between two states, which by your own admission was wrong to begin with. But the facts are in, and not just my "pull it out of my back-end" facts that you choose, and that study clearly that Florida is 14% less expensive compared to Virginia for housing (111.6 compared to 97.4). So you take the prize yet again for posting factually wrong information once again, thanks for playing.

[bobandsherry]

Originally Posted by sinatras

I meant to type $450 but it's gone up I believe.

So let's review:

My home is assessed at $450-$500 something around there.
My tax bill is near $7.

I also pay homeowners insurance AND flood insurance.

All of this adds up to more than $11k.

Conclusion: Property taxes and insurance costs can be high in Tampa Bay!

When I lived in Northern Virginia, my property taxes were $2k a year and my homeowners insurance (which covered flooding) was $600 a year.

Yes, let's review. I chose some random place in Virginia and found a home which seems to be comparable based on size, lot size and MARKET value. I just wanted to see how when one compares MARKET value how the assessed value compares. As I thought, it doesn't.

Your comp for your current Florida home, market value of $925K, assessed value of $$486K, so assessed value is about half for simple math:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4...?fullpage=true

Using Zillow, I searched for and picked a home of similar size/cost. This home is $930K but has an assessed value of $785K, or 85% for simple math:
https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...811_rect/6_zm/

So market value being equal along with similar home and lot size, the Virginia home has taxes of $9K, far greater than the $2K you claimed and more than the $7K you pay now in Florida (your figure, I don't trust your "facts" much based on how lose you are with details to support your stated facts. But taken at face value similar home in Virginia has higher taxes.

Conclusion: Phhhhttt!

[sinatras]

Here's my house in Virginia. As you can see, in 2015, when I gifted it to my nephew, the assessed value was
$415,300 and the taxes were $2,326. Which is what I said originally in my post. A $400,000 home had $2k in property taxes.
And in fact today it is assessed at nearly $450k and the taxes are STILL under $3k.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...ct/8_zm/0_mmm/

Meanwhile my house in South Tampa is assessed in the high $400s and my taxes are near $7k.

So as you can see, you are wrong. Virginia property taxes are indeed CHEAP. And Florida taxes are NOT.

I'm waiting for my apology.

[bobandsherry]

Originally Posted by sinatras

Here's my house in Virginia. As you can see, in 2015, when I gifted it to my nephew, the assessed value was
$415,300 and the taxes were $2,326. Which is what I said originally in my post. A $400,000 home had $2k in property taxes.
And in fact today it is assessed at nearly $450k and the taxes are STILL under $3k.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...ct/8_zm/0_mmm/

Meanwhile my house in South Tampa is assessed in the high $400s and my taxes are near $7k.

So as you can see, you are wrong. Virginia property taxes are indeed CHEAP. And Florida taxes are NOT.

I'm waiting for my apology.

Apology for what? You are not comparing comparable valued homes. Remember those $1Million homes I provided yesterday for Chicago area, those were "assessed" at $80-90K and taxes of $20K, clearly showing that assessed has NOTHING to do with the value of the home relative to taxes. And it's not even comparable, it's clear the Virginia home is very remote and no where near water and 2/3 the value of home in Florida (per your information). But does look like nice area!

You clearly show you don't understand how to look at comparable homes. Show me a home in Florida in comparable location, then maybe we have something close to oranges to oranges. Maybe something like this home, $650K, rural, similar size home, similar age of home.... taxes of $2,800.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6...?fullpage=true

Gotta be comparable to do a comparison.... Thanks for sharing.

BTW - I'm done on this subject, it's no longer meaningful....

[sinatras]

Originally Posted by bobandsherry

Apology for what? You are not comparing comparable valued homes. Remember those $1Million homes I provided yesterday for Chicago area, those were "assessed" at $80-90K and taxes of $20K, clearly showing that assessed has NOTHING to do with the value of the home relative to taxes. And it's not even comparable, it's clear the Virginia home is very remote and no where near water and 2/3 the value of home in Florida (per your information). But does look like nice area!

You clearly show you don't understand how to look at comparable homes. Show me a home in Florida in comparable location, then maybe we have something close to oranges to oranges. Maybe something like this home, $650K, rural, similar size home, similar age of home.... taxes of $2,800.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6...?fullpage=true

Gotta be comparable to do a comparison.... Thanks for sharing.

Yeah. Didn’t think I would get one.
That home in Lakeland is assessed in the $200s. Of course the taxes are low.