High School English Teachers please read (pretty please). (homework, class, pay)
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As an educator I would NEVER test student on material I had asked them to read but did not teach in class. Not as a parent, as a teacher.
As an educator, I would never leap to the conclusion that another person's classic pedagogical techniques were necessarily wrong because my child did not sufficiently prepare him- or herself for an assessment.
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It may be time honored but what is the point of it? We do not get to see the quizzes as they are not sent home. I will be able to see it when I meet with the teacher. According to my son the quizzes are on minutia. I don't really know if that is true or not.
Several educators have explained the point to you several times. Here are some things you can do to reinforce your understanding if the point has not been made sufficiently clear:
1. Read the posts again.
2. Talk to others about it.
3. Use the abundant resources of the Internet.
4. Go to the library and read about it.
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We do not get copies of the tests. I don't see why you think I would embarrass myself. I am not accusing anyone of anything. I just want to meet with the teacher to see if we can help my son be more successful in his class.
With all due respect, I find your statement somewhat unpersuasive, particularly since you want a face-to-face meeting. If you were genuinely interested in "see[ing] if we can help [your]son be more successful," you could email the teacher and ask. Based on your tone here and the points you brought up, I actually believe that what you want to do is arrange a face-to-face confrontation with this teacher, accusing her of poor teaching in an effort to force her to "improve" your child's grade -- not necessarily his understanding. You sought support from educators, assuming, I believe, that en masse, we would theoretically decry the manifest unfairness of a test over assigned reading but found quite the contrary.
I could be wrong, of course.
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I also don't understand why you think I should not take my son at his word. He is having trouble with this class. He has not had trouble in any other class he has taken so far at the high school level. He has not given me any reason NOT to trust him.
What isn't being taught in the class?? I just don't understand what you are saying? Do you think the teacher should be reading the book out loud to the kids-junior in high school?? How hard is it to read a few chapters in a book and answer a few questions about what you read. Why does this need to be "taught" and what is there to teach?
I never said it was hard. I just don't find it appropriate.
I have never had a college professor give a pop quiz. I have 2 bachelors degrees and a masters degree. I don't understand pop quizzes.
I am not "worked up" over anything. Not every comment means someone is "worked up".
Exactly. That's why I need to go talk to the teacher. He thinks he is doing what he should be doing but it is not working for him.
I am not complaining about anything. I am trying to gather information about common practice.
I don't think that literature is something that can be learned JUST by reading the book. The important concepts in literature need to be taught. I don't think that the typical Jr. in high school (even in an honors class) can teach himself the literary concepts in a novel without any instruction. In other advanced classes my son is taking there are no quizzes on minutia. The quizzes are on the substance of the class and are given AFTER the material has been taught.
The reason the quizzes are on "minutia" is a very simple one: it tests students on the superficial knowledge they were supposed to have gleaned from a weekend reading done on their own. You would actually have a case here if the quiz DIDN'T test on "minutia" but on larger-scale themes, symbolism, and motifs in the novel.
I never said it was hard. I just don't find it appropriate.
It is totally appropriate for an AP level class-AP is supposed to mimic a college level class. I can see if it were a remedial English class but not AP.
Also, why are YOU the one that needs to meet with his teacher-HE should be doing that, not you.
I don't like these sort of quizzes. What if they read the material but they don't understand it? Isn't it your job to clarify that information and ensure that they do understand it?
Grades should reflect what a student achieves in a class. They should be permitted to not understand something and then master it prior to being assessed for a grade. A teacher's grade is to teach the material. Quizzing kids on material not yet taught in class just seems silly to me. Especially in classes like Science.
According to you, the teacher wasn't asking your son to understand the material. He/she was asking for details the students should know IF they actually did the reading. That is not what the teacher should be clarifying. The teacher should be clarifying the big stuff not the details.
Grades should also reflect whether the student is doing their part. A student who doesn't read the material but picks up what he needs in class discussions does not deserve the same grade as a student who read the material and was participating in class discussions. A student who doesn't read can't participate. That's a big part of an English class.
I see nothing wrong with what this teacher is doing. Please post again after you talk to the teacher and find out what the class curve looked like on this quiz. If most of the kids did poorly, then I'll believe there was something wrong with the quiz material. If most did fine, I'm betting your son didn't read.
If a math teacher assigns students some problems in the book, there is nothing wrong with her taking it up and giving students a grade on whether they did the homework.
Same deal with reading a book. If the teacher asked simple, plot related questions that anybody who read the assignment would know, what's the problem? If I was teaching a book in class I'd give quizzes after every couple chapters to make sure they were doing the reading.
As an educator, I would never leap to the conclusion that another person's classic pedagogical techniques were necessarily wrong because my child did not sufficiently prepare him- or herself for an assessment.
Well it's not something I would do but that doesn't make it wrong. It does make it different from what I would do.
How is a child to be prepared for an assessment if he doesn't:
1. Know there will be one.
2. Know what is being assessed.
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Originally Posted by Charles Wallace
Several educators have explained the point to you several times. Here are some things you can do to reinforce your understanding if the point has not been made sufficiently clear:
1. Read the posts again.
2. Talk to others about it.
3. Use the abundant resources of the Internet.
4. Go to the library and read about it.
I understand the point that others are making. I just don't agree with it. Is it possible in your mind for someone to understand but simply disagree?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wallace
With all due respect, I find your statement somewhat unpersuasive, particularly since you want a face-to-face meeting. If you were genuinely interested in "see[ing] if we can help [your]son be more successful," you could email the teacher and ask. Based on your tone here and the points you brought up, I actually believe that what you want to do is arrange a face-to-face confrontation with this teacher, accusing her of poor teaching in an effort to force her to "improve" your child's grade -- not necessarily his understanding. You sought support from educators, assuming, I believe, that en masse, we would theoretically decry the manifest unfairness of a test over assigned reading but found quite the contrary.
I guess you are allowed to believe what you want to believe. I can assure you there will be no accusations and no confrontation at this face to face meeting but if you don't want to believe me you are not required to do so.
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Originally Posted by Charles Wallace
I could be wrong, of course.
Because data is more objective than opinion.
Data certainly is more objective than opinion but I am note sure how that fits into this conversation.
It is totally appropriate for an AP level class-AP is supposed to mimic a college level class. I can see if it were a remedial English class but not AP.
Also, why are YOU the one that needs to meet with his teacher-HE should be doing that, not you.
Also, what age group did you teach?
This is an honors class not AP. In AP History there is reading, class participation, and tests (both MC and essay). If you don't do the reading you won't pass but the teacher does not quiz the kids on the individual reading assignments. She lectures from the reading and my son says you need to read the book both before and after the lecture to get a good understanding of what is going on. He got a 5 on the AP World Exam last year and currently has an A in AP American.
In AP Chemistry there are homework problems, tests and labs. Although there are reading assignments there are no little quizzes to see if you did the reading or not (more like a college course). In that class there are homework problems that need to be handed in for a grade. The teacher assigns the reading, lectures, and then assigns the homework which students do independently and then hand in for a grade.
He has struggled for the whole first quarter. He has tried to work things out on his own but has been unable to do so. Now is the time for me to try to help him. He will attend the conference also. I don't think conferences for struggling students are all that controversial.
I am certified to teach music K-12 but all my experience is middle/high school.
According to you, the teacher wasn't asking your son to understand the material. He/she was asking for details the students should know IF they actually did the reading. That is not what the teacher should be clarifying. The teacher should be clarifying the big stuff not the details.
Grades should also reflect whether the student is doing their part. A student who doesn't read the material but picks up what he needs in class discussions does not deserve the same grade as a student who read the material and was participating in class discussions. A student who doesn't read can't participate. That's a big part of an English class.
I see nothing wrong with what this teacher is doing. Please post again after you talk to the teacher and find out what the class curve looked like on this quiz. If most of the kids did poorly, then I'll believe there was something wrong with the quiz material. If most did fine, I'm betting your son didn't read.
I am not going in to talk to the teacher about one quiz. That would be crazy. I know my son did the last reading assignment. Whether he read it the way he was supposed to read it is a question only he can answer.
My son has completed a quarter's worth of work in this class. When he first started struggling we asked him if he could get himself set straight on his own. He said he could. We let him try and he has not been able to do it on his own. Obviously what he is doing in this class is not working for him. I would like to meet with the teacher (my son will be there) to try to figure out how to get my son back on the path to success in this class.
I do have a problem with pop quizzes. Apparently others do not share my concern. That's ok. We all have different philosophies. I made my initial post to gather opinion of others. I already have my own opinion but I find the opinions of others useful.
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